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 Post subject: Air cleaner mystery
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:32 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:17 pm
Posts: 14
Location: N. Alabama
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Hey guys:

I have an air cleaner mystery that probably isn't one. I bought a very solid, mostly original '68 Valiant a while back and I'm going through the fuel system as we speak.

To preface, it's an A-code car that lost it's original 170 long ago, replaced by a 225. It still had the 170-spec 4415S BBS carb and what I thought was the original air cleaner. However, upon closer examination, the base doesn't fit correctly. It hits the choke pull-off before seating. The base DOES however fit a spare Holley 1920 perfectly.

So, that tells me I have part or all of the 225 air cleaner that came with the engine.It's an unsilenced unit. The base is approximately 10-1/2 in diameter with a 1-1/4" lip. The top is approximately 11-1/4 in diameter x 3-1/2 tall. I'll post some pictures if i can get them to work.

If anyone has the correct base or whole assembly, I'd be interested in buying it. Also, that 225 is stamped H225R on the pad...what's the H mean in this case?

Thanks for the help.

[img][img]http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr286/TylerW71/SANY0001_zpsrou6gbns.jpg[/img]
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[img][img]http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr286/TylerW71/SANY0004_zpsmcp75l21.jpg[/img][/img]

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1968 Plymouth Valiant 200
1968 Plymouth Fury III convertible 383


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 4:29 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23002
Location: North America
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Nope. There's nothing such as a "170 air cleaner" versus a "225 air cleaner" in any year after '62. Neither is there a "Carter BBS air cleaner" versus a "Holley 1920 air cleaner". The air cleaner in your pics was used on 170s and 225s, on BBSs and 1920s.

Can't quite see from the angle of your pic of the unhatted carburetor, but it looks like your choke levers and linkage on the carb might not be assembled correctly. Please show us another photo showing the rear face of the carburetor in clearer detail. If that's what's up, then putting it right will fix it. If not, toss on a second air cleaner-to-carb gasket and off you go.

(The BBS is the better carb design; if the engine runs well with this carb, you're better off keeping it)

H225 means your engine block was originally built into an engine for a 1972-model car.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:38 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:17 pm
Posts: 14
Location: N. Alabama
Car Model*:
Thanks for your help Dan. After making sure it wasn't the choke linkage hitting the air cleaner, I used my Man Hands to bend the pull-off inboard slightly. Problem fixed.

In my defense, I've never had a BBS carb or an A-body this old. I have immediately liked both. This year is supposed to have the "cleaner air package", which it does, but I chuckle when I see the open carb vent and the filler neck vent which terminates in the frame rail void space.

Speaking of that BBS...I know there's been debate about usage, which I don't wish to revisit, but for reference, the 4415S on this car is the small venturi version, and my parts carb is a '66 4100S large-venturi. I intended to use the '66 but the linkage is set up for rod style, and you can't just swap throttle shafts because the butterfly screw spacing is different between the two.

What was the procedure if the dealer installed a replacement longblock under warranty or not? Would it have gotten a block painted the original red, or blue if it were after 1969? Reason I ask is there is no blue paint anywhere on that engine. It is Chrysler red top to bottom under a lot of grease and grime. Whomever replaced it did a detailed, by the book job. No missing brackets or bolts. Most of the hoses have the original style clamps as well. The pad had only H225R, no 10,000 day date.

Anyway, thanks again.

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1968 Plymouth Valiant 200

1968 Plymouth Fury III convertible 383


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:34 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23002
Location: North America
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TylerW wrote:
Thanks for your help Dan. After making sure it wasn't the choke linkage hitting the air cleaner, I used my Man Hands to bend the pull-off inboard slightly. Problem fixed.


Let's hear it for easy, cheap fixes :-)

Quote:
This year is supposed to have the "cleaner air package", which it does, but I chuckle when I see the open carb vent and the filler neck vent which terminates in the frame rail void space.


Well, yeah, in '68 evaporative emission control was still 2 (California) 3 (other 49-states + Canada) years away.

Quote:
Speaking of that BBS...I know there's been debate about usage, which I don't wish to revisit


...?

Quote:
the 4415S on this car is the small venturi version


1-9/16" throttle bore, 1-1/4" venturi. Which is interesting, because Chrysler claimed the 170 went from 101 to 115 horsepower in '67 because it was given the 225's carburetor and camshaft.

Quote:
my parts carb is a '66 4100S large-venturi.


4100S does indeed have the 1-11/16" throttle bore and 1-11/32" venturi.

Quote:
I intended to use the '66 but the linkage is set up for rod style, and you can't just swap throttle shafts because the butterfly screw spacing is different between the two.


True. Don't sweat it too hard; if the present carb runs well, keep it—you might be able to detect a practical difference with the larger carb if you had something like a 3.55 rear axle that runs the engine up to high RPM, but with the 2.76 gears you probably have (assuming automatic transmission)...not much perceptible difference, if any.

Quote:
What was the procedure if the dealer installed a replacement longblock under warranty


In theory they would stamp the engine in some manner to indicate it was a warranty replacement. Often they didn't bother.

Quote:
Would it have gotten a block painted the original red, or blue if it were after 1969?


Up to the fates. (Also, it wasn't a simple blue->red shift. Mostly red through '68, turquoise in '69, blue from '70-'82...but still not even that simple; see here.)

Quote:
Most of the hoses have the original style clamps as well


Corbin clamps. Those damn things are a curse.

Quote:
The pad had only H225R, no 10,000 day date.


You won't necessarily see a 10-kiloday date code in that location. Sometimes you'll see a calendar month and day ("8 27" for example), and sometimes nothing at all.

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