Wait for Charlie...………………………
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| R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62719 |
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| Author: | Reed [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
I am going to be adding an AC system to my 82 Ramcharger. The truck curently has no AC. I am adding a system pieced together from factory components and an aftermarket under dash evaporator and fan unit, a new crossflow condenser, new hoses and fittings and o-rings rated for R-134, new receiver dryer, new binary cutoff switch, and factory brackets and Sanden compressor. My question is which oil I should use. The only oil in the system will be what is left in the compressor after I drain it. All other components will be new and dry, or old and dry in the case of the evaporator. The compressor is a Sanden unit of of an 83 Dodge van, so it was originally in an R12 system. I have read that ester oil is compatible with all oils and all refrigerants, but I have also read that compressor manufacturers prefer you to use oils specially designed for their compressor. I am looking for a recommendation on what kind and how much oil I should put in the new system. My options are ester, PAG 46, or Sanden SP-15. See here: https://coldhose.com/oils.html I would think the Sanden oil would be best because I am using a Sanden compressor, but I won't be able to remove all traces of the original oil from the system, even though I will drain the compressor before charging the system. That makes me think I should just use ester since it is apparently compatible with everything. Thoughts? Any AC experts in the house willing to share their knowledge with someone who knows nothing about refrigration systems other than I like them? Thanks. |
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| Author: | bcschief [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Do not use pag in a former r12 system it will chemically react with the chlorine that is permeated in the system and cause corrosion in the system. I would use ester oil. Brian |
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| Author: | Reed [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Thanks! I am leaning towards ester oil, too, just because I want it to work, not kill me, and last. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Wait for Charlie...………………………
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| Author: | Reed [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
I hope he chimes in. He has helped me out with AC questions in the past and I didn't want to abuse the privilege. |
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| Author: | DadTruck [ Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
I know that Charlie has been busy getting cars ready for Clay City. He was a huge help to me getting the AC right on the 83 D150. |
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| Author: | Reed [ Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Well, I won't bug him if he is busy. I went ahead and ordered up a few bottles of ester oil. It is supposed to work with everything, so I will use it. I hope I can get this whole system set up and working. The heat has been brutal where I live. |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Oops. Missed this post. Personally, I only use Pag in 134 systems, mineral with r12, and ester with the NEW aftermarket "York" style compressors with R134a. That said ester should work for you. |
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| Author: | Reed [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Thanks, Charlie! I went with ester only because I am using a used Sanden compressor off of an 83 Dodge van so I won't be able to fully eliminate all the old lubricant in the sump. I didn't want any problems with the residual oil not mixing with the new lubricant. I agree that if I were installing a completely new system with a new and truly empty compressor I would have gone with PAG. The parts shipped this morning, so hopefully I will have them by the end of the week. I haev a massive 17x26(?) crossflow condenser, a vintage underdash evaporator and fan unit, stock Chrysler Sanden compressor, brackets, and pulleys off an 83 van, all new hoses, receiver/drier, high/low pressure cutoff switch, and a new hydraulic bubble crimping tool. I already had a vacuum pump from previous AC system repairs on other vehicles. All I need now is a refrigerant recovery system and I can open my own shop!  I will document the installation of this stuff on my 82 Ramcharger and make a thread so other people can see what it takes to add AC to a vehicle that didn't get it when it was built. Really, the expensive things are the tools.
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| Author: | DadTruck [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Hey Reed You certainly have things under control, I will add below the tips that Charlie S gave me,,, background, 1983 D150, originally a non AC truck,, added AC using * a NOS C171 compressor, stock item for a 83 D150 * stock hoses from Rock Auto * stock evaporator and condenser also from Rock Auto I was working with a local shop for the evacuation and R134A install. Cooling was not great, blowing seals, leaks,, costing me $400.00 everytime I pulled into their shop. I contacted Charlie,on Charlies recommendation I bought a set of HF AC Gauges and a HF vacuum pump. The OE style serpentine condenser took a hit from a piece of road debris and I installed a parallel flow condenser recommended by Charlie.. put in 24 oz of R134A, 44 oz of R12 is the FSM fill, the R 134A fill will take less than a R12 fill, Charlie said it is better to be under than over on a R134A fill. added 2.5 oz of Pag 46, that was calculated considering: a used compressor and evaporator and hoses, new condensor, was a what we used to call when I was working in the engineering forecasting group a 'WAG,, Wild Ass Guess',, that was better than a 'SWAG,, a Super Wild Ass Guess' also added 1/4 oz of dye pulled vacuum for 45 minutes 38 on the low side 190 on the high side the AC is working great! |
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| Author: | Reed [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R-134 AC conversion. What oil? PAG? Ester? Sanden SP-15? |
Thanks Dadtruck! That is great info. Dan also contacted me privately and reminded me to "think system" and be sure to tint windows and add thermal insulation. I would have gotten stock hoses etc. from Rockauto, but I am using an aftermarket under dash evaporator so I needed to be able to fabricate the hoses. I want to be able to see my breath when the AC is on! 
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