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 Post subject: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:51 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:15 am
Posts: 247
Location: N. California
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Brilliant in both its elegance and simplicity: because camber helps handling but wears out tires, why not mold the tire on a slant, so that the tread face still contacts the road squarely? Available with angles from 2* to 4*.

The journalist's description has a somewhat cheeky introduction but then includes a wealth of information about how and why. The company website indicates they're soliciting votes for what sizes people want them to build next. Not surprisingly, their current offerings are all for 17 or 18 rims.

- Erik

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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:13 am 
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Board Sponsor & Moderator
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Location: Blacksburg, VA
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Funky. I am also surprised I've never heard or thought of this before. Hard to believe the big tire companies have not tried this. Thanks for posting...

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:12 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Florida
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mpgFanatic wrote:
Brilliant in both its elegance and simplicity: because camber helps handling but wears out tires, why not mold the tire on a slant, so that the tread face still contacts the road squarely? Available with angles from 2* to 4*.

The journalist's description has a somewhat cheeky introduction but then includes a wealth of information about how and why. The company website indicates they're soliciting votes for what sizes people want them to build next. Not surprisingly, their current offerings are all for 17 or 18 rims.

- Erik


Or , just go zero camber and have the tires last,
Or , leave lots of camber and just go in circles all day.

This Logic reminds of why they don't make alum hammers, think how light and easy they would be to swing.

I'll read the link later, in the meantime, I highly skeptical

Camber on a front tire compares well IMO to a pencil eraser, keep it perpendicular to to the paper, it slides normally, lean it slightly over and try to push it, and it gets hard. Cars are compromises, a chamfered tire only reduces one problem while defeating another solution.

The other design reason for camber is to get the tire more squarely oriented with the pavement as the chassis rolls/leans in a turn, with most of the weight transferring to to the outer, and therefore the most important for proper orientation with is its extra temporary weight transfer. The inner tire with less weight becomes less important. Not sure what a chamfered tire here offers in chassis roll conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:43 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 280
Location: Houston
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Of course....you'd have a real problem, too, with directional tires and cars that use different size front/rear tires. You'd end up with a corner-specific tire. Yep, an aluminum hammer idea for sure.

Then, it might work well on my new car I'm developing based on using bigger diameter tires in the back. That way it'll always be going downhill and won't need any fuel or engine!


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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:48 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:25 am
Posts: 722
Location: Tompkinsville, KY
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Everything on their site seems to be 6 years old - maybe they made so much money they reTired :wink:

Just imagine these paired with boxed LCAs - you'd have to weld the doors shut just to stay in the car around corners :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:54 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Florida
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You guys crack me up, I'm trying to be serious here. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:58 am 
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jcc wrote:
reason for camber is to get the tire more squarely oriented with the pavement as the chassis rolls/leans in a turn,

True. Not sure how that would play out during all the various motions, since surely the car doesn't consistently lean its suspension to the exact angle you happen to choose for the alignment setting, anyway? "More squarely oriented" is achievable, but I doubt a tire is ever planted perfectly except once in a blue moon when you hit the perfect curve at the perfect speed. And, what about all the portions of the track that are not curved at all? My interpretation of this tire is to better withstand those. Everything is a compromise.

GregCon wrote:
Then, it might work well on my new car I'm developing based on using bigger diameter tires in the back. That way it'll always be going downhill and won't need any fuel or engine!

Whoa, that's a patentable idea there! :wink:

- Erik

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Lots of early Valiants and Barracudas have crossed my path.

Also a handful of other toys for variety now and then.


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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: SW Washington
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This camber tire would want to roll in a circle. If you force it to go in a straight line the wear would be enormous. The uneven wear you see with normal tires not square to the road would be minor in comparison. It might work on a super speedway where the car is constantly turning in only one direction and the larger circumference of the tire is to the outside, but going in a straight line would be a major handicap.

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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:48 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:15 am
Posts: 247
Location: N. California
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Joshie225 wrote:
This camber tire would want to roll in a circle. If you force it to go in a straight line the wear would be enormous. The uneven wear you see with normal tires not square to the road would be minor in comparison. It might work on a super speedway where the car is constantly turning in only one direction and the larger circumference of the tire is to the outside, but going in a straight line would be a major handicap.

Don't forget that the effects of L and R would cancel each other out. I had those same reservations and more -- what about the fact that different parts of the tire are rotating at different surface speeds? But in reading the journalist's description, he addresses a lot of these issues. My take-away from his article is you can't just bolt these on without making changes to what you thought typical alignment settings would be. And not just camber: they've found they actually need to change the toe-in to zero in order to make it work, presumably because of the effects you mention, that the tires create their own toe-in effect. Even more outrageous, the lack of (mechanical) toe-in causes significantly reduced scrubbing, to the point where he's even able to get some traction in the snow. :shock: If he can do that on near-slicks, then clearly, many rules we thought were non-negotiable have been tossed out the window. My thought is this: it makes very little sense until the entire setup can be taken in context, and the human brain has to be willing to think differently, which frankly it's not very good at. (I think a video of his snow claim would get serious attention!)

... and having written that, it made me wonder if there is one. I see the manufacturer's website includes a 'media' section. I'm generally not a video person, I get my information much faster by reading, but I think I'm going to have to take the time to watch some. The printed testimonials are pretty impressive, from the likes of Indy Car drivers and so on. I doubt you'd see these votes of confidence if it totally didn't work.

The whole thing is purely mind-bending. I love that aspect of it. Whether I would actually do it or not.

- Erik

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Lots of early Valiants and Barracudas have crossed my path.

Also a handful of other toys for variety now and then.


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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:41 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Florida
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The issue regarding different circumferences of the inside to outside of the tire is a good point, and can only be resolved by having the tire follow a proper turning radius to negate the different speeds of the tire in contact with the pavement, or allow for some slippage, which leads to wasted energy and tire wear, both issues I believe are intended to be resolved. What I do not know is how a chamfered tire would wear when driven in a straight line, both outsides of the tire equally, lessening towards tire center or some variance. It doesn't really much matter anyway other then for discussion sake IMO.

edit

OK, I read the link, and :

" But Cambertires, Mr. Scott informs me, do not need "toe-in" at all. That lack of toe-in makes for less tire scrub, cooler running temperatures, less rolling resistance and better treadlife."

Not a "Eureka" statement, and as the member below so eloquently suggests, "BS" is bit more accurate..


Last edited by jcc on Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:54 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:15 am
Posts: 380
Location: York NE
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The article is purely what the male bovine left in the field.

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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:54 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:25 pm
Posts: 175
Location: SW PA
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A pile of ridiculous BS as stated,.................
A short sidewall is a problem, known as conicity in tire circles, and the design of modern radial ply sidewalls make the camber-wear issue very insignificant. Toe-wear is always the primary wear factor, the problem is that proper toe settings can change with mods to the suspension and other alignment values,(more caster, less camber), so experimentation or leaning on the experience of somebody running Your setup is key. Yeah, if You dial in a bunch of neg. camber for the Solo/autoX and then plan on driving 2K to a cruise & back, the insides are going to wear disproportionately. In the '80's, they tried different size sidewalls, a metric dia., outer lower profile vs higher inner, better ride w/a stiffer outer when leaning on it. it is of course an abortion relegated to the history books now, but................................


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 Post subject: Re: CamberTire!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:49 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 21
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model*: 1966 Dodge Dart
Racers in SCCA Showroom Stock had been shaving camber into their tires for a while - typically because they can't set the camber to a good setting for aggressive race use while staying within the limits of the rules. I suppose this might be a good option if you have a car that goes from street to race use without wanting to redo the alignment - you could just swap tires. For a street car or a drag car, it's not going to be very useful.

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