How much of a PITA is it to make/replace the brake hardlines?

I have the line (25'), fittings and flare tool.


The left rear line on the axle rust welded to the nut, and twisted off.

So I have to replace that section.


I will at a minimum replace the lines on the axle.


How tricky is the hardline from the front to the rear? (bending, getting it out, getting it in......)


Are the distribution blocks (rear axle tee, and front tee) brass or bronze? I'm worried that the line nuts have rust welded and this project will get harder as I go along...................

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

If you have a decent flaring tool and some patience they are not too bad.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

x2 for Dan's recommendation.

Take that steel line back, get the copper/nickel, and you'll be a happy man.

Many hours saved, easiest flares ever, no kinks, and never have to do it again.

Worth every penny.

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O==\=/==O

"A mechanic is Somebody."
- Jim Preston

x3 , that stuff works great !!!!

Yup

I did the Dart and 82 LeBaron front to back a few years ago with the nice line. Four tips; get a high quality flare tool no over seas junk; carefully remove old factory lines to use as a template; wire tie new line one length and bend at a time to original factory line replicating exact length and bend as you form the new line while leaving a few extra inches of line at each end just incase your new line has a fit or length problem, then dry fit and cut to length; and use the correct sized tubing nut wrenches, open end will distort nuts.

Take your time, pay close attention to forming perfect flares and it will all go together nicely without miss alignment leaks.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Have had the line for a couple of years, so no returns.........


I'll start with the line I have to do (left rear axle) and see how much of PITA it is.


Getting the car high on jackstands will probably help.



BTW, it's the original lines, so another 50 years with the replacements will be fine..............

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

I'd try your flaring tool out on that line you have before you start making the actual lines.....that steel tube can be a challenge to get a good double flare onto...like others have said,all flaring tools are not created equal I tried making some steel 3/8" fuel lines a while back....I found the Ridgid brand flaring tool and the Sykes tube bender the best options on the steel tube I used..but at least with brake lines you may be able to hand bend,but I'd test that on your tube first before making the actual lines...different manufacturers seem to have different quality and characteristics.
That copper/nickel line sounds very nice....looks like the best option for future projects! Thanks for pointing that out Dan.

You can get a whole set prebent and with fittings from Inline Tube for around $145 + shipping. The fit is excellent.

http://inlinetube.com/Preformed%20Lines ... CAT-01.htm

Noted on the Cunifer lines, next time, I'll try those, maybe it will save me some heartache!

If you're stuck flaring lines, you need to buy a real good flare tool. The garbage ones make garbage, and it's like playing the lottery to get a good flare. The nice tools make a nice flare almost all the time. When I switched to a 'nice' tool, I went from making a good flare maybe half the time to never making a bad one, no joke.

A nice flare tool is in the ballpark of $100+ if you buy a lower end "nice" one, like mine (I have an OTP master set - made in Taiwan, unfortunately, but the machining is excellent, and I've had excellent results so far).

Unless you see lots of tube flaring in your future, I'd recommend shelling out for the pre-made lines, or a trusted junkyard set. It'll be way cheaper and even less frustrating.

A different option altogether, you can get pre-terminated lines at the auto parts store (even big box ones, like Napa or advance, et al). If you can get within a handful of inches of the length you need, you can put a bend or two or a service loop in the pre-flared line and skip the flaring part altogether. This is way cheaper than the correct pre-made lines, but generally less pro looking, depending upon your talent. Provided you don't kink the lines or something silly, there should be no safety implications.

Wasn't that fun.........


Didn't have any problems with my cheap flaring tool (Harbor Freight)


But it has been modified. The supposedly easier to use wingnuts with swing away bolts were removed when they started stripping a couple of years ago.

Replaced them with 2 normal bolts, nuts and washers ( 5/16 or 8mm) and have to tighten with wrenches.

Getting a nice tight tube clamp probably helps.

I also used a small hobby style mini tubing cutter. Takes longer to cut the tube, but it produced perfectly straight cuts, and caused a slightly smaller hole due to the cutting action. The smaller hole helped line up the nipple on the 1st phase of the flare.


Anyway, the normal tubing was fine for the rear axle and I was able to bend up the tubes fine with a small tubing bender.

Used some brake grease between the tube and tube nut, and Teflon tape on the tube nut so there won't be any rust welding.


I didn't do the front to rear section because it was buried under the undercoating (no external corrosion) . Didn't want to chip it out.

I figure I'll get around to it when I make the new exhaust system and have time under the car (It will be about time to flush out the brake fluid by then tooo).

The more bendable brake line should help with that section, and it not corroding away would be a side benefit (the rear axle is easy enough to do again if it corrodes with the cheaper tubing).

Another possibility is to do the front/rear section in sections. Do the rear that has all the funny bends as a shorter more manageable section, then join it to the front that's longer with 1 it's one Z bend.


I also still have to do the front lines. I ran out of time and needed to get the car together. So the fronts will probably be the same time frame as center front/rear piece. I also think the right front could be done as 2 pieces, with a union below the fan motor to make the construction more manageable...........

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Good point. Let the undercoating continue to do its job; no reason to create a breach for either the line or the frame rail. So, unless it's a show car, or unless you're too much of a perfectionist to stand it, why not simply run a shiny new line in parallel, disconnect the old one and leave it safely buried?

For the record, I am 100% in favor of good hydraulic components, and have replaced many.

But your situation got me to thinking... if there's no external corrosion, is it a problem? Why replace anything with new material that is almost certainly going to be of poorer quality than what was used decades ago?

Regarding corrosion from the inside out, if the brake fluid has been flushed periodically (as you suggest is true), then it doesn't seem anywhere near as likely. Is there a fiber optic snake small enough to see inside? Would that be a cost-effective test, or does even top-of-the-line tubing end up being cheaper?


Ah ha! This starts to point to an interesting solution. It turns out there's even more to the story. I found a nice automotive paper that describes theory, history, test results... and frankly it makes such a strong case against the common steel tubing that I'm ready to replace that "regular" stuff in every car I can get my hands on, friends' cars, you name it. But wait a minute... Just because Volvo and Porsche use it, and their brake lines last virtually forever, does it mean all the other cars on the planet deserve condemnation?

More importantly, at what age does a brake line fail, and why? In my experience with 60s and 70s Chrysler products driven in salt-infested winters, the average life of a steel line was about 20 years, and rubber hoses crack by then as well, though I always saw the lines disintegrate to failure before the hoses. But in that amount of time in a mild CA climate, admiring various makes in junkyards tells me the hydraulics all still look just fine. I don't currently have any 50-yr-old lines to inspect, though I sure wouldn't trust 50-yr-old hoses. If rust is a negligible issue, then we're getting to an age (and our cars, also) where different rules apply to see whether something is worn out. If not blasted with salt, how long does a steel hydraulic line last? Is metal fatigue a factor at all, given that burst pressures in the range of 15k psi are typically at least 10x and sometime 20x a typical brake system pressures?

Lots to ponder.

- Erik

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Lots of early Valiants and Barracudas have crossed my path.
Also a handful of other toys for variety now and then.

This is half the price of cunifer.

Short of the expensive hydraulic type, this flare tool has given me better luck then the bar type. Easier to keep things square and not as bulky so can be used on-car. Just be careful when tightening. The two halves that come apart are a bit soft but as long as threads are kept lubed and you don't go bonkers on the torque you'll be fine.

I used to sell this company's stuff:
http://www.surrauto.com/brake.html

They've got the copper lines, fitting assortments, and flaring tools.
Everything of theirs that I saw and used was excellent.

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O==\=/==O

"A mechanic is Somebody."
- Jim Preston

Brake lines will rot from the inside out as brake fluid attracts and retains moisture that will accumulate at low spots along the lines. Just because a line looks pristine on the outside it may be harboring thin weak spots from within at those low spots. Never trust 50 year old brake lines even though you may have flushed fluid regularly, chances are previous owners did not flush them except when new parts were installed. I have burst several brake lines that looked real nice on the out side over the years while under way; that does not a good feeling make.

I would redo all the lines, it's easer, quicker, and cheaper than body work. LOL

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC