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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:47 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 1134
Car Model*: 1967 Dodge Dart GT
hey everyone, my 67 dart gt is acting up still, its still been starting on and off usually having to be jumped at the starter relay, i havent had time or energy to mess with trying to figure it out, just been jumping it and driving to work and back every day, but today it wouldnt jump, it acted liked usual but wouldnt start, then i tried another time or two and then i had no oil light, no dome light, nada....i am pretty sure i have no power inside the car, jumping at the relay it cranks over but wont start, symptoms very much like fusible link, i replaced it before and it was not the problem(i think) buts been working, so i replaced the link with another piece of fusible linnk(bought a role after last time) and nothing still, is there something else that could cause that symptom? also, i think i read somewhere that no one makes new wiring harnesses for abodies? is that right? how different from stock does painless harnesses look? they dont have the block in the firewall right? thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:09 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:51 am
Posts: 855
Car Model*:
Year One carries very nice reproduction harnesses for many Mopars; Paddock also carries some last I looked.

Adapting a ~universal Painless one is a LOT of work, as you need to canabalize the old harness for all the connectors.

Get the factory manual before you start in any case.

The most common failure points are right at the pins in the bulkhead connector and at the ammeter posts. Look for signs of corrosion & overheating.

The ammeter nuts are usually practically welded in place - if you force them, you will likely break the ammeter. It is far better to carefully cut the nuts off the studs to preserve the ammeter.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:06 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:01 pm
Posts: 1937
Location: Rhine, GA
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Have you tried Ron Francis Wiring? They are much better than Painless.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:26 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 1134
Car Model*: 1967 Dodge Dart GT
thanks guys, i got bad sticker shock at year one and paddock, but may be worth keeping the whole thing from going up in flames and keeping it running, will check out ron francis, also, i saw alot of wiring kits for v8s on year one, is there really a difference? can i use one of those? any idea what the issue is with it now? thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:08 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:49 pm
Posts: 2480
Location: Lubbock, TX
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I had the neutral safety switch go out on my old Fury and had to start it by jumping the relay. Might want to look there. The no power symptom sounds like the fusable link.

On a side note one of the better things I've done to my Satellite is drilling out the bulkhead disconnect and fuse box to eleminate the connections for the charging wires (the black wire from the alternator to the ammeter and the red from the ammeter) and running them directly through the two. Chrysler ran the two wires seperatly through the fire wall on fleet models. Eleminated alot of problems.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:36 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 1134
Car Model*: 1967 Dodge Dart GT
dan already had me check out the neutral safety switch, at it didnt appear to be the source of my problems, maybe i just didnt get the fusible link in all the way this time....thanks again


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:46 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 4299
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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There are a few, very minor differences between a v-8 and a 6 harness. It kind of depends on whether you have electronic of points ignition as to how much is different. I swapped a v-8 into my 70 Dart, and the only difference was the location of the coil and distributor connections. They are on the back of the engine for a v-8. In your case using a v-8 harness would require splicing in a section of wire to get to the coil, and perhaps distributor pick up. With the electronic ignition, I think the electronic ignition wires have their own seperate harness package. The battery, and alternator, however are in essentially the same place. Your six is a little longer than a v-8 so wire to the alternator and the temp sending unit might be a little short.

Bottom line is, you can change this stuff out yourself, one wire at a time, and make it work just fine. It is cheaper, and you learn about your car in the process. Be careful, and work neatly. I prefer to solder, and double heat shrink everything. I used many, many fuses as I worked, both to protect the car, and the components. I have five extra ad-on fuse blocks under the hood of my car, two for switched 12 volts, and 3 for batt power.

I am paranoid, because my 70 Dart almost burned up. The yo-yo who owned it before me eliminated the fusable link, even though he knew there was a short in the steering column associated with the turn signal, which he solved by simply removing the turn signal flasher. When I installed a flasher to make the signals work, WHOOSH, the wiring harness under the dash went up in smoke. I was out of the car in a blur diconnecting the battery. I never moved so fast around a car. Then I went and changed my pants. :lol: I became Mr paranoid Fuse Man. You can never have too many.
Sam

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:14 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 1134
Car Model*: 1967 Dodge Dart GT
i was thinking about it as i have been doing it a piece at a time, soldering some, and heat shrinking once, the thing is i would like to keep it more or less stock looking, both for stock appearance and for tracing wires on my wiring chart...so i may consider buying the v8 one and making it longer where needed...i replaced the fusible link again and made a better connection(i dont think it was all the way in the firewall block the first time...)and still nada, so i might end up driving the riceburner the last few weeks of summer...blah...dont want to spend the money on a new harness now and cant get this too cooperate, the under dash one is like 500 bucks, ouch....the engine one is only 100 something so thats not awful, the fuse blocks you mention, is that like a block with multiple fuses or like the inline ones?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:27 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:03 pm
Posts: 113
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Jeb wrote:
Have you tried Ron Francis Wiring? They are much better than Painless.


haven't heard of those guys before. can you tell us more about them?

are the prices reasonable?

-dave

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what part of "illegal" is so confusing???


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 4299
Location: Gaithersburg MD
Car Model*:
Take a VOM (Volt Ohm Meter, and a test light, and see where you have current and where you do not. You can find out what you need to know without even strying to start the car. Somewhere between your battery and your alternator, there is a high resistance connection. It could be the ammeter itself. It could be one of your bulkhead connectors.

When the engine is not running, the battery is the supply of power, and will be the higher value. As you lose power through the wiring you will see the voltage read progressively lower the further you get away from the battery iallong the wiring. When the car is running, the high current should be the alternator voltage, and any losses will show up as a voltage drop as you move further away from the big red wire on the alternator.


check the voltage all along the blue, and brown wires which carry the switched ignition voltage. Brown is for crank, and blue is for run. Check your ballast resister. If it is bad, she will not start, or run. They are nortorious for failing. With the car not running, you should see less then .2 volts drop between the plus terminal on the battery, and the brown wire where it hooks up to the ballast resister, and you should see about 8 volts on the blue side of your ballast resister. I think I have that right. Dan, correct me if I have this wrong somehow.

If you get the car started, then do a similar check , but this time compare the voltage at the big red lead on the alternator, and the voltage at the battery, and the voltage at the ignition wires on the ballast resister. Make each check further away from the source, until you find where the power drops, or goes away. There is your problem. Go about it in a systematic way, and you will find out where the problem is. Don;t just start throwing parts at it. When you do find the problem, it is best to unhook the battery while you make changes. It is possible to burn up something if you ground out a hot wire with a tool while you are working around a live 12 volt car circuit.
Sam

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:00 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 1134
Car Model*: 1967 Dodge Dart GT
thanks alot sam, ill get my meter out sometime soon and check those things, i know stuff about installing electrical equipment, but thats pretty easy, i am pretty much clueless on checking thnings in the manner you described above, so i appreciate it, thanks!


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