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 Post subject: Fuel rail fabrication
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2001 11:44 am 
Idea's been bouncing around in the ol' shoulder-mounted vaccuum chamber for a while.......get two factory rails from the Gm efi cars, (could be both four's or six's), then cut-and-fit to the spacing needed on your manifold, leaving some "overlap" for the cut ends. Take the pieces, or even the manifold to a heating/cooling service tech and have him swage the tubing to fit into each other and solder the pieces together. The solder is a hi-temp silver solder, and A/C uses pressures that the efi will never see, so there shouldn't be any worries about leaks.
I'm just not completely sure if it'll work for the material that the factory tube-style rail is made of. Guess I'll run by somewhere and check....stay tuned for answer.
One could even keep the factory vac-operated pressure regulator in the rail and plumb the fuel return back to, say, the overflow vent in the tank fill spout.

Thoughts....opinions.....I'm full of it?

Roger

gts225@aol.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2001 4:44 pm 
Being a Journeyman Sheetmetal Worker and HVAC installer with an uncle who's a service tech I know a little about this.
Usually A/C lines are all copper (conduct heat better, and a soft and easy to bend around pesky trusses and foundation obstructions). On certain applications Stainless is used but usually a plumber gets called in to TIG that together and inspect it. Service Techs also have a high "shop rate" too, so consider that in your estimate.

If it works, let us know. I'm curious.
My only worry would be the expansion and contraction of the heated/cooled rail at the joint, and it's effects on the softer solder
that expands and contracts at a different rate.

-D.Idiot

Take
(User Above) wrote:
: the pieces, or even the manifold to a
: heating/cooling service tech and have him
: swage the tubing to fit into each other and
: solder the pieces together. The solder is a
: hi-temp silver solder, and A/C uses
: pressures that the efi will never see, so
: there shouldn't be any worries about leaks.
: I'm just not completely sure if it'll work for
: the material that the factory tube-style
: rail is made of. Guess I'll run by somewhere
: and check....stay tuned for answer.
: One could even keep the factory vac-operated
: pressure regulator in the rail and plumb the
: fuel return back to, say, the overflow vent
: in the tank fill spout.
:
: Thoughts....opinions.....I'm full of it?
:
: Roger



res0aus2@verizon.net


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2001 6:54 pm 
(User Above) wrote:
: Idea's been bouncing around in the ol'
: shoulder-mounted vaccuum chamber for a
: while.......get two factory rails from the
: Gm efi cars, (could be both four's or
: six's), then cut-and-fit to the spacing
: needed on your manifold, leaving some
: "overlap" for the cut ends. Take
: the pieces, or even the manifold to a
: heating/cooling service tech and have him
: swage the tubing to fit into each other and
: solder the pieces together. The solder is a
: hi-temp silver solder, and A/C uses
: pressures that the efi will never see, so
: there shouldn't be any worries about leaks.
: I'm just not completely sure if it'll work for
: the material that the factory tube-style
: rail is made of. Guess I'll run by somewhere
: and check....stay tuned for answer.
: One could even keep the factory vac-operated
: pressure regulator in the rail and plumb the
: fuel return back to, say, the overflow vent
: in the tank fill spout.
:
: Thoughts....opinions.....I'm full of it?
:
: Roger


I think I'd get an estimate for fabricating a "standard" fuel rail first. You may find that it's not much more expensive than paying someone to do all that plumbing. Rance FI charges $40 an hour for fabricating and I'll bet he can do a fuel rail alone in a relatively short amount of time. Also, I wouldn't force fuel down your vent tube. That defeats the purpose of a vent! Doug is investigating methods of fabricating a fuel rail. Maybe you can get some preliminary tips from him.
Bob D


BBobbias@aol.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:49 pm 
(User Above) wrote:
: I think I'd get an estimate for fabricating a
: "standard" fuel rail first. You
: may find that it's not much more expensive
: than paying someone to do all that plumbing.
: Rance FI charges $40 an hour for fabricating
: and I'll bet he can do a fuel rail alone in
: a relatively short amount of time. Also, I
: wouldn't force fuel down your vent tube.
: That defeats the purpose of a vent! Doug is
: investigating methods of fabricating a fuel
: rail. Maybe you can get some preliminary
: tips from him.
: Bob D


I have done a few serious research trips to the junkyards and found a numbr of different fuel rails which are good candidates for modification into our SL6 rail(s).

The one that seems to be the closest is off a 6 cylinder BMW, it is the one that is trapped under the intake runners. (just our luck) This rail is set-up on the needed 4 inch centers. What I did is cut 2 inches out of the center to get the shorter SL6 spacing needed at the center position. ( I brazed it back together using an inner support "sleeve" to position everything and add stiffness).

Trouble with this rail is it is a "hose clamp" type which uses short pieces if hose between the rail "barbs" and the injectors, it does work and is pretty easy to make. As Bob noted, the extra cost to just have an o-ring type rail made-up may not be that much more then the time and effort to do the junkyard re-fab rail I did.
DD


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:16 am 
(User Above) wrote:
: Am I missing something, why don't you guys just
: use the MSD stuff?
:
: <A HREF="http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_11.htm">http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_11.htm</A>


Try this one instead:

<A HREF="http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_11.htm">http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_11.htm</A>

klesteb@aol.com


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2001 3:23 pm 
(User Above) wrote:
: Try this one instead:
: <A HREF="http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_11.htm">http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_11.htm</A>


That link is also in the Intake Manifold and Fuel Rail section of my posted EFI article. I think the issue here is money. However, in my opinion money spent on a good safe fuel rail is money well spent. A leak here with EFI working fuel pressures could be catastrophic.
Bob D



BBobbias@aol.com


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2001 12:37 pm 
I can make up the fuel rail from several different extrusions. The problem is getting the bung in the manifold at a 45 degree angle. The manifold is .195 in thickness and that does not leave much for threads at an angle. The msd bungs would work but you need to cut a lot of it off inside the runner. i am still working on a nice clean set up for doug. Don't give up hope. Thanks Jon MDR Glass

mdrglass@saber.net


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 11:39 pm 
(User Above) wrote:
: I have done a few serious research trips to the
: junkyards and found a numbr of different
: fuel rails which are good candidates for
: modification into our SL6 rail(s).
:
: The one that seems to be the closest is off a 6
: cylinder BMW, it is the one that is trapped
: under the intake runners. (just our luck)
: This rail is set-up on the needed 4 inch
: centers. What I did is cut 2 inches out of
: the center to get the shorter SL6 spacing
: needed at the center position. ( I brazed it
: back together using an inner support
: "sleeve" to position everything
: and add stiffness).
:
: Trouble with this rail is it is a "hose
: clamp" type which uses short pieces if
: hose between the rail "barbs" and
: the injectors, it does work and is pretty
: easy to make. As Bob noted, the extra cost
: to just have an o-ring type rail made-up may
: not be that much more then the time and
: effort to do the junkyard re-fab rail I did.
: DD

I am telling youz guys! Steal braided hose, brass barbs, presto, and safe, and flexible! (trust me on this, it's better than the plastic that they used on the hitlers revenge vanagons)

((am I not helping??)

Richard-c@e-d-a.com


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 11:40 pm 
(User Above) wrote:
: That link is also in the Intake Manifold and
: Fuel Rail section of my posted EFI article.
: I think the issue here is money. However, in
: my opinion money spent on a good safe fuel
: rail is money well spent. A leak here with
: EFI working fuel pressures could be
: catastrophic.
: Bob D

OOPs forgot to mention hose clamps


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