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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:04 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm
Posts: 70
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Just visited a local shop in Tampa FL. Old shop that rebuilt was in Venice FL.

They where concerned about the black specs but the lady at the desk was saying it may be initial break-in. They said they would mic it for free so I plan to bring it there hopefully next week.

I bought some modeling clay to get a rough idea for clearance on the piston to valve but I think I may invest in a dial gauge with a mag base to be a little more precise.

DadTruck wrote:
I use Lubriplate 105 on the cranks main and rod bearings and journals and other internal moving parts. It is an oil soluble grease that can also be packed into the oil pump gear cavity to assist with oil pump priming.
I use Moroso Moly Paste as the cam lube on the mating can-lifter surfaces.
I use an inexpensive 10w30 motor oil and filter and add a bottle of break in additive like Comp Cams 159.
I like to run the 20 minute 2000 rpm cam break in, then 2 or 3 moderate rpm cold engine oil to warm/hot engine oil cycles then change out the break in oil and filter.

Your #2 rod bearing does not look good either. Checking the crank journals for size and roundness is the right next step.

Do you remember the oil pressure at idle with a fully warmed up engine that you were seeing?


Thanks.
I recall 50psi cruising but I could try to dig up some old videos to check for that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
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Location: Indianapolis
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Using clay to check valve to piston clearance is the right way to do that. Leave the head gasket out, that way in use you will have a .037 or so cushion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:41 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm
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Break away torque was 45 lbft +/- 2 on the connecting rod caps. The 1 main bearing cap i pulled was around 100 lbft.

Number 3 rod journal has a clear bur on it in the center. The cap has also clearly more wear from that in the center.

These rod caps are fairly difficult to put on and off. Is that usually the case with motors?

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 Post subject: Crank fixed and back in.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:57 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm
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I got the crank back from the shop and back in place.

The rear main cap was tough removing and didnt want to slide right back into place either. I could visibly see a raised edge of metal so i filled that off the cap. This helped but i still had to somewhat use the stud and nut to press it down.
Is that pretty typical? Just asking before i torque things down.

The raised edge was hitting the block as it slide into place. This side was also not chamfered like the opposite side so it intially didnt have a 'guide'.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:16 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
All the main caps should be a tight fit in the block. Adding a chamfer is fine, but don't take anything off the side of the cap. Main caps that are loose will move around and then the trouble starts.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:24 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

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Makes sense. Thanks Josh.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:25 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm
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Ive got the crank torqued down along with the rear main.
You might see some of the moly paste i put on the cam lobs also. I ended up buying Liqui Moly brand.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gCyUvIufpHCtgrwC3

Ive got the piston + rods assembled. These rod cap bolts from K1 appear to have been tightned by a 500 pound guerrilla from the factory because i cant easily get them off. Gonna have to set them up in a vise.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hvh5HXCTEu9gVzRj2

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:55 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
Yes, the caps are torqued to specs for their final sizing. You'll want soft jaws in the vice so that you don't mar or distort the rods.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:40 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

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Any reason why the new connecting rods dont have oil holes in the rod end?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/lzSr5Z0zC1l1pkbh1
Just noticed while i was installing a couple in the block.
There is a hole on the wrist pin side.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:59 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

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What im reading is that would be an oil jet for the piston? Originally i thought that would just be some sort of relief hole for the pressurized oil but i would the clearance between the journal and cap should be fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:47 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
The hole in the small end is to lube the wrist pin. Holes in the big end are not necessary and in fact not wanted on higher speed engines. They were there originally to lube the cam or cylinder wall.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:42 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

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I've got all the connecting rod bolts tightened down.
I used a torque angle gauge for the first bolt. The spec said to go to 35 lbft then go 55 degrees; worked ok but was kinda weird. Went to use it on the next one and it acted like it was broken. I would stretch the bolt but the gauge wouldn't turn... :? I knew I could have an issue with these because the reviews were so terrible for seemingly every version available. I then checked the first bolts approximate torque by slowly going up in value, finally landing at 95 lbft. Since I really didn't trust that tool after the first bolt I just went with 95 lbft and went to that torque in a few steps for each bolt.

I placed the timing chain on in the orientation I had it before from some markings I made on the gears. I have a timing wheel setup with a tig rod and I set things up to TDC.

What's the best way to verify the cam timing? Should I do this we the head on? I still have the cam timing card.

The pictures below show me measuring the combustion chamber volume. Third try was this trick and it came out to about 61CC.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/q59UModgUQKnaDoW2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QBK47ktmrvn0Kv9x2
That's alcohol with blue dye by the way.

With the 61CC the compression ratio should be about 11.6 now.

Planning to check the valve clearance tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
95 ft/lbs on the rod bolts! :shock: I'm surprised they haven't popped! How much stretch is that?

Cam timing is easier to check with the head off. I use the intake centerline method.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:05 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

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Supposdly up to .006. I was definitely concerned. When i torqued the others to that amount it roughly looked like the same angle as the original.
I suppose if i ever take that back apart i will be replacing those bolts again.
I realize now this isn't really torques numbers which line up with other specs on the internet. However i ever heard this process can be kind of gray with measuring actual stretch.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:38 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm
Posts: 70
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So I'm now realizing the torque I checked on the original bolt would have been the static torque rather than the dynamic torque while stretching the bolt. That would mean all the other bolts I have tightened would be way over. :oops: I'm seeing now that a more reasonable number would be somewhere around 60-65 lbft. Don't want to be the guy that does dumm things and roles with it. That was an expensive mistake but I think I will order new ones to be safe in case I have went into the permanent stretch range.

I very recently accepted a new job and am moving to Tampa to Jacksonville. I've been trying to hurry things up so I can have the motor in the car so I can store things for maybe 6 months till we find a house :(
Better job though so I will have a lot more time for working on things after that.

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