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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 8
Location: San Marcos, CA
Car Model: Valiant
Hi, new member, most of my experience is with Studebaker and Ford. Still learning the ins and outs of Mopar.

I bought a 1960 Valiant Suburban, it has the slant 170 and 3-spd trans. I would like to install a 225 and the A833 trans. Or, I may keep the 170 and still want the 4-spd trans. Questions:

- Is the 225 a direct bolt-in? Same motor mounts, do I need to change the K-member?
- I see MABBCO advertising remanufactured 225 short block engines, anyone have experience with their engines?
- Will the A833 trans bolt up to the 170 (I assume it will to the 225)? Same bell housing, or do I need a new one? I know that I will need a new shifter and maybe clutch plate?
- Anything else I should consider in making a decision about swapping?

I have not fully checked out the 170 and 3-speed. It does drive, but I don't want to tear into either until I know which way I am going with this drivetrain.

Thanks, Parks


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Triple Duece Weber
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2011
Location: Desoto Texas
Car Model: 1972 Dodge Colt
Hello and Welcome!
60 and 61 are different from the 62 and up, so I don't have all the answers. Your 225 should exchange with the 170 as long as you get a 67 and old engine. Crank changed in 68 so flywheel changed also. If you get the right block your flywheel will work, but you have a limited choice on pressure plates, 9.5 or the truck 10.25 scalloped design. You will need a new bellhousing as the early model was a 3 speed only pattern and mounted on an angle. Not sure if you have enough tunnel clearance for the fourspeed. You will need the floor tunnel shift linkage cover to allow for the linkage and shifter. If your transmission is the OD box you need that bell. Motor mounts should work?

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24233
Location: North America
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Quote:
I bought a 1960 Valiant Suburban, it has the slant 170 and 3-spd trans.


Gotta love a '60 Valiant wagon. V100 or V200 model?

Whether you keep the existing engine and/or trans or swap, there's a lot of one-year-only '60 and two-year-only '60-'61 stuff to contend with on that car.

Quote:
I would like to install a 225 and the A833 trans.


Doable, though more work than you might have in mind.

Quote:
Or, I may keep the 170 and still want the 4-spd trans.


With appropriate rear axle gearing that could be a really fun combo.

Quote:
Is the 225 a direct bolt-in?


In general yes, though there are relatively minor issues. Depending on what the 225 comes from, you'd need to swap on the oil pan and pickup tube from the 170 engine. The exhaust headpipe would be lifted up higher when connecting to a 225 than to a 170, so you'd need at least to make a spacer (good excuse to install Dutra Duals). Bellhousing is the same, motor mounts will bolt up. The '60 cars have the alternator on the driver's side ('61-up on the passenger side) but the '60 brackets will bolt onto any year 225. The 225 valve cover is a much tighter fit under the heater box which makes valve adjustment a little more of a nuisance, but it's still doable.

Quote:
I see MABBCO advertising remanufactured 225 short block engines, anyone have experience with their engines


If you are going to the trouble and expense of an engine swap/upgrade, it is a much(!) better idea to pick your engine, components, and machinist yourself rather than take a (big) gamble on a who-the-hell-knows, but-probably-indifferently thrown-together-with-cheap-parts "remanufactured" unit. The quality and performance of "remanufactured" parts tends to be poor, whether it's a carburetor, a brake cylinder, a distributor, a starter, an alternator, or an engine.

Quote:
I know that I will need a new shifter


Well, yeah, that's going to be a big obstacle. The '60-'61 3-speed trans is mounted slantwise (not straight vertical) which is what allowed such a minimal floorpan bulge/hump for the shifter in those cars. The 4-speed cars, available in '64-'65 and '75-'76, had a straight-vertical trans orientation and a considerably bigger floorpan hump. You would have to cut the floorpan and weld in the hump to use the 4-speed shifter (though if you're clever you might figure out a way to attach the "charmed snake" '60 Valiant shift lever to the 4-speed shifter mechanism).

Quote:
Anything else I should consider in making a decision about swapping?


Well, what's the overall goal here? What does the car do that you want it not to do, or what does the car not do that you want it to do?

Also be sure and save plenty of money/time/effort in the budget for upgrades other than the powertrain. See here.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:23 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 8
Location: San Marcos, CA
Car Model: Valiant
Sorry that I have responded in a while, I'm knee deep in my car. So much work to do (MUCH MORE than I ever expected), haven't even gotten to the engine/trans install yet. My car got moved when there was an ownership dispute at the shop it was residing at, the original 170 engine and also possibly the 3-spd transmission were lost in the shuffle (I think the previous shop owner made off with the stuff). My 4-speed/OD turned out to be a 4-speed WITHOUT OD, so I got on Brewer's schedule to build me one (with bell housing). The shifter part, haven't even touched yet but I'll hopefully get help from Brewer's to figure it out. I did bolt in a later K-member (for a front disc conversion) and have replacement mounts to fit that K-member. I also have an alternator mount off a later Valiant to put the alt on the right side, which I needed to do because of the power steering unit I installed.

What do I want to do with the car? I want to drive it regularly (maybe not daily) in Southern California traffic. Maintaining freeway speeds is more important to me than quick acceleration, which is why I wanted the OD. No racing. I'm swapping the 13" for 15" wheels, which is why I wanted the power steering (I also found an original 1960 P/S unit). I'm into the rear end right now...at this point, I am so deep into this car that I can't afford a new rear end, so I'm rebuilding the 7.25" rear with 3.23 gear set (if I can find new bearings). Maybe one day I'll put a heavier rear in, but I need to build up my bank before that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:50 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 8
Location: San Marcos, CA
Car Model: Valiant
I'm keeping a visual log of the work at:

https://www.facebook.com/parks.stephenson/media_set?set=a.10213401181638619&type=3


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:15 pm 
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Triple Duece Weber
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2011
Location: Desoto Texas
Car Model: 1972 Dodge Colt
Since you changed the K frame you should fit your column and check the alignment to the steering box. As you know steering box location has moved and the coupling and length of column will be different. I am wondering what will be the front track width with the disks vs your older drums. Fender to tire clearance might get tight on the front if you run wider rims and tires. Track width will make it closer.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:08 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 8
Location: San Marcos, CA
Car Model: Valiant
I had to trim the P/S mounting base off the new K-member so that my 1960 P/S unit would fit. The alignment for the steering column remains the same with that arrangement. I also have the steering shaft from the 1960 P/S system, so I’m good with shaft length, too. I am going with larger, but not too wide, wheels...15x7. I haven’t received the wheels yet but it looks like I have room. I will fit them when they arrive (backordered) to be sure.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:35 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:13 pm
Posts: 82
Car Model:
Looks like you know what your doing.
I will be watching as I have some old junk that needs to be changed in order to keep up with traffic, as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:36 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 8
Location: San Marcos, CA
Car Model: Valiant
“Looks like you know what you’re doing.”

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh, I can only wish. I am a blind man stumbling in the dark, buying parts I don’t need and making plans that are in many cases proving impossible to implement.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:17 pm 
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Board Sponsor
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:52 pm
Posts: 1486
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Car Model: 1964 Valiant
parkseiii wrote:
My 4-speed/OD turned out to be a 4-speed WITHOUT OD

As for me, I'd rather have the non o/d 833 and chose final drive carefully. I'd trade you the non od 833 for an od version, mine might need rebuild. Its likely easier to find parts for the non od version.

Tim


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