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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 5474
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Quote:
You will have to weld up your slots to limit total advance and maybe run without the vacuum can.


These guys limiter plates work well too.
http://4secondsflat.com/Mopar%20Mechani ... 0plate.htm

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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:44 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:42 am
Posts: 14
Car Model*: Valiant 100
Those limit plates are wild! 8) I was thinking about CNC a governor that was adjustable, but those parts put that idea to shame. I will definitely check those out!

In the mean time, I’m going to weld up the slots in the distributor. The governor is a 9R type (stamped), which has 18* worth of mechanical. It is stock. I have done a curve test on it using the timing light, bringing the rpm up in increments 500 rpm, and then noted how it ran. I have it where I like it, but after as it climbs up 3000 rpm (driving/under load) it would advance itself further than I had it set at, making it ping. I found the formula to figure out how much to weld the slot by. (.385 slot length- .240 día. stud= .145” of movement per 9* .145/9= .0161” per degree) Now, if I stop using the vacuum can, the distributor then becomes a “centrifucal” one?

The pistons are forged flat tops. The cam is a mild upgrade? I’m aware of the other cam that’s for racing, so that’s why I went for the streetable one. Are there better cams that you want to recommend for future use? I’m going to buy another Valiant 100 soon, so the more I know the better. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:27 pm
Posts: 11590
Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model*: 68 Valiant
There are a multitude of cams available. My "street" cam is an old Clifford 300M with .558" lift. I have a couple race cams that are .600" plus. :D

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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:43 am 
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Maybe we should ask you, what are your goals for the car? Street car? Street/Strip...etc?

It sounds like it is a street car so there is no reason to eliminate the vacuum advance. At wide open throttle it is not doing anything anyway.

As Zilla says, there are a multitude of cams out there. Best to decide on your goals and then build the engine to that purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:44 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:42 am
Posts: 14
Car Model*: Valiant 100
This engine is based on that cam. The idea was Street/Strip.


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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model*: 68 Valiant
232Valiant wrote:
This engine is based on that cam. The idea was Street/Strip.


Not trying to beat a dead horse, but it seems like you have way too much compression for that cam. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
If it really is 13 to 1 you will probably be blowing head gaskets unless you used Cooper.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:50 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:42 am
Posts: 14
Car Model*: Valiant 100
At this point and time, even I’m starting to thinking that it’s not truly a 13:1 CR. The block has a thin gasket. Still no word from the machinist, simply because it’s the weekend.

I have the distributor out, haven’t welded the slot yet because I ran out of brass rod. I am wondering though how much of the slot I should weld. Should I fill it up by 3* (.048) to start and see where it runs? Clearly if it’s too much, I’ll file it back.

Again, thanks for the help and info!


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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:59 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:49 pm
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Location: Houston, TX
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If you're using a 9R governor, you shouldn't need to weld it up for most applications. Start with 10-12° of initial for 28-30° total mechanical.

Did you have your vacuum advance hooked up when you tested your total advance? That's the only reason it would be advancing farther than it's supposed to. In any case, if it pings at high RPM with 18° mechanical and 2° initial timing, you may have problems that go beyond too much vacuum advance.

To echo what others have said, we can't help very much until we know the details on your engine. If the machinist can't tell you the cc volume of your head as well as how far down in the hole your pistons are at TDC, then we can only make an educated guess about your SCR. For that guess we'll need to know how much your head and block were cut as well as the part number (or exact compression height) of your pistons.

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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
You could do a compression test and let us know ho high that number is?

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:05 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:42 am
Posts: 14
Car Model*: Valiant 100
Yes, I have the vacuum connected when I check the advancement. If the vacuum can is causing this over advancement, I’m capping it off.

I will post the results later today after I change the initial time and run the motor. I also will check the compression as well.

Still no word from the machinist. However, I do know that I have flat top pistons. I can clearly see cut outs for the valves on top of the piston. I would post photos, but the site only allows a photo of 2mb.


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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 5474
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Quote:
If the vacuum can is causing this over advancement, I’m capping it off.


Just cap it off while checking your mechanical advance.

_________________
2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

]Image


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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:43 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:42 am
Posts: 14
Car Model*: Valiant 100
Update!
Capping the vacuum can helped extremely. The mechanical is advancing the way should now, not going over its limit. Timing is at 12 with 18 mechanical made the 30 :mrgreen:

Now for the compression results:
#1 @ 160 psi
#2 @ 180 psi
#3 @ 185 psi
#4 @ 180 psi
#5 @ 185 psi
#6 @ 185 psi

Not really digging #1


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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:52 pm
Posts: 1042
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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I'm no expert but those compression numbers are kind of normal. My stock well used '85 has 160 PSI. My old Geo Metro has 210 PSI (9.8:1 CR) and uses 87 octane. Why is #1 lower?


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 Post subject: Re: 232 Valiant Project
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 12643
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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My guess is your actual compression ratio is about 9.5 or 10:1, given that small cam and those psi numbers.

Lou

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