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 Post subject: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:01 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Utah-Idaho border
Car Model*: 1964 Dart 270
Finally got around to pulling the spark plugs on my 64 Dart. Car ran when I bought it last January and I have left it how it was other than new oil/filters.

Car burns oil but not excessively.

Plugs are definitely fouled in oil but I would like opinions on if it is a serious problem or not. I can't post pics but they are on my Flicker in my sig.

Plugs are arranged: 6,5,4 on top
________________ 3,2,1 on bottom

Rust on 5 looks like water went past the boot? No rust at the mating surface to spark plug tube. Is this something to worry about? The wires are getting replaced and if a bad boot is to blame that will be corrected.

6 and 3 were wet with oil so are worse off than the others.

Any comments are appreciated,
Brandon

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23656
Location: North America
Car Model*:
OGLeanDart270 wrote:
FCar burns oil


Yes, it does.

Quote:
but not excessively.


But yes excessively.

Quote:
Plugs are definitely fouled in oil


Thus cluing us in about the excessive oil burning.

Quote:
Rust on 5 looks like water went past the boot?


And the poor-quality Autolite plug began rusting quickly, yes.

[quote]Any comments are appreciated[/quote

Time for some engine work!

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:21 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Utah-Idaho border
Car Model*: 1964 Dart 270
Last year it burned about a quart per 1000 miles. I guess when I said not excessive I meant not catastrophic (at least not yet haha). Mostly I am just wondering if it will survive to next year to be rebuilt, I only cruised it about 3k last year (never more than 30 miles from home) and was hoping for the same again.

Iv'e spent the last year replacing safety related things, put in new leaf springs and am in the process of rebuilding brakes with a 2 pot master.

Those crappy autolites are in the trash and the NGK's are going in with Magnecores and electronic ignition.

Got my Dutra book and I have experience rebuilding motors, just wanting to hold out for salt season.

Thanks
Brandon

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:09 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:49 pm
Posts: 949
Location: Houston, TX
Car Model*:
Beautiful car! Ugly plugs. Have you verified the condition of your valve stem seals? If they're disintegrated, you might be able to help the situation by replacing them, without pulling the engine apart (using either an air compressor or Dan's rope trick to keep the valves in place). If you haven't checked and adjusted your valve lash, having the valve cover off is also a great opportunity to do that.

If your valve stem seals are fine, then a leakdown test will help tell you if the rings are shot, or the valves, or both.

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:40 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Utah-Idaho border
Car Model*: 1964 Dart 270
I redid the lash last summer but didn't think to look at seals.

The head was rebuilt and hardened seats added 17k miles ago (but also 25 years or so ago).

Might take the valve cover off and look after I get the brakes operational.

Brandon

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
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Location: Blacksburg, VA
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It also looks likely that you are running rich. Think about doing some tuning as well as installing an air-fuel ratio gauge. AEM has worked very well for me. Here is one of the latest: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm- ... ?rrec=true

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 6488
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
A quart every 1000 miles?? I have had much worse. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:49 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2080
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model*: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
Ditto on the clean Dart, very nice...

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:00 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:49 pm
Posts: 949
Location: Houston, TX
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25 years is a lot of time for stock rubber valve stem seals, especially if they've been sitting dry for a lot of that time. I had the engine in my Dart rebuilt in 2004, daily drove the car until 2008, and then parked it until 2012. When I got the car running again, it was fogging for mosquitoes. Those rubber valve seals had all hardened, and most of them had broken into pieces probably as soon as I started driving the car again.

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:01 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Utah-Idaho border
Car Model*: 1964 Dart 270
Thanks for all the replies.

This weekend I got rear seat belts installed and finished hanging brakes and new bearings. Looks like next project is getting the new brake lines in but ignition is soon after. When I get the ignition done I'll likely pop the valve cover off and take a look.

What exactly do I look for? Oil where it shouldn't be? Or just feel them to see if they are hard?

Brandon

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2080
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model*: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
First, see if they are pliable or crumble between your fingers. If the latter...new seals. if they are really hard, but don't crumble, still probably bad. They need to be soft and pliable.

As for signs, is there a lot of crud around the stems in the seal area? This is a sign that oil and contaminates are building up, that the seals aren't doing their job. Oil gets into the combustion chamber, burns, makes deposits back to the valve stems, on and on, hence the buildup.

Brian

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:22 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2080
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model*: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
That's assuming you have the rubber umbrella type seals, but didn't you mention it had modern seals pressed in?

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:39 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Utah-Idaho border
Car Model*: 1964 Dart 270
Not sure what valve seals were used, I'll likely not know till I pull the cover again.

I did find the receipt for the head work and it lists a new exhaust valve, 12 new guides, and 6 new exhaust seats. New head gasket and such but no valve seals listed in the parts they charged for. Work was done in 1998.

Other interesting finds on the paper: Labor rate in Montana back then was $40/hour and tax rate a whopping 3%.

Car only got 15k miles after the repair in 1998 until I bought it last January.

Brakes will be finished this week so I should have more updates on the head soon I hope.

Brandon

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 Post subject: Re: Read my plugs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 6488
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
When you first fire it up does it blow a puff off blue smoke?

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