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 Post subject: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:03 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
So after my 78 slant 6 decided it wanted to misfire like crazy I parked it to put a new timing chain and gears on it. The book says to align the marks but no matter where I put the marks, camshaft in either position and crank as well, whenever the crank is at TDC the valves are not right? What is going on and what am I not doing right? Please help! I need this truck as it’s my only form of transportation. And yes I have looked in the search and nothing is broke. :(.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:53 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Fircrest, WA
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Is the camshaft locating dowel still in the end of the camshaft? That little dowel can break off or come out of its hole and let the cam timing gear spin independent of the cam.

What do you mean by the "valves are not right"? If I remember correctly, when the timing marks are ined up the engine should be at TDC on the firing strike of cylinder #6. The valves on #6 should be loose. The valves on #1 should be under tension.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:03 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Reed wrote:
Is the camshaft locating dowel still in the end of the camshaft? That little dowel can break off or come out of its hole and let the cam timing gear spin independent of the cam.

What do you mean by the "valves are not right"? If I remember correctly, when the timing marks are ined up the engine should be at TDC on the firing strike of cylinder #6. The valves on #6 should be loose. The valves on #1 should be under tension.


Pin in not broken and in the right place. I see now what you mean about the valve springs. Will have to check that after this storm passes by. I thought the number one piston should be up and both valves closed in order to be correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:43 pm 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 7220
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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Reed wrote:
Is the camshaft locating dowel still in the end of the camshaft? That little dowel can break off or come out of its hole and let the cam timing gear spin independent of the cam.

What do you mean by the "valves are not right"? If I remember correctly, when the timing marks are ined up the engine should be at TDC on the firing strike of cylinder #6. The valves on #6 should be loose. The valves on #1 should be under tension.



Correct. When the dots are lined up, #1 and #6 pistons are at the top. But it is #6 that is at the power stroke. The valves should be loose on #6, and the distributor rotor pointing at #6 terminal on the cap.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:36 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Charrlie_S wrote:
Reed wrote:
Is the camshaft locating dowel still in the end of the camshaft? That little dowel can break off or come out of its hole and let the cam timing gear spin independent of the cam.

What do you mean by the "valves are not right"? If I remember correctly, when the timing marks are ined up the engine should be at TDC on the firing strike of cylinder #6. The valves on #6 should be loose. The valves on #1 should be under tension.



Correct. When the dots are lined up, #1 and #6 pistons are at the top. But it is #6 that is at the power stroke. The valves should be loose on #6, and the distributor rotor pointing at #6 terminal on the cap.


Awesome!! Thank you very much. I will update the thread with results when finished.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:49 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Desoto Texas
Car Model*: 1962 Dodge 770 Lancer Station Wagon
Dang, learn something everyday! What am I missing, why would they do 6 and not 1?

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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:19 pm 
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Guru
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Posts: 3551
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Car Model*: Many Darts and a Dacuda
#1 and #6 are both at TDC with #1 being at the "beginning" of the 4 stroke cycle... starting the intake stroke.
#6 is in the middle of the cycle, at the start of the power stroke.

Cam / intake / exhaust valve "overlap" is the reason why the both valves are under tension on #1, at the end / beginning of the 4 stroke cycle.
At #1 TDC is where you want to be checking for correct cam to crank "phasing", when "degreeing" a cam. (seeing if the overlap event is somewhat "centered" over TDC... or a little advanced)

As we know... It is pretty "risky" to just "line-up the dots" when installing new time gears and chain.
You should at least verify that the overlap event is happening "over" TDC.
DD


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:18 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Doctor Dodge wrote:
#1 and #6 are both at TDC with #1 being at the "beginning" of the 4 stroke cycle... starting the intake stroke.
#6 is in the middle of the cycle, at the start of the power stroke.

Cam / intake / exhaust valve "overlap" is the reason why the both valves are under tension on #1, at the end / beginning of the 4 stroke cycle.
At #1 TDC is where you want to be checking for correct cam to crank "phasing", when "degreeing" a cam. (seeing if the overlap event is somewhat "centered" over TDC... or a little advanced)

As we know... It is pretty "risky" to just "line-up the dots" when installing new time gears and chain.
You should at least verify that the overlap event is happening "over" TDC.
DD


I surely didn’t know that either! I’ll be checking that. I might have more problems than just this as well :(. Seems I can hear the compression either coming through a valve or back down in the oil pan :(. Not sure how to explain this correctly. There was little resistance when turning the crank with a ratchet and the spark plugs are still in (all but #1)


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:14 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Desoto Texas
Car Model*: 1962 Dodge 770 Lancer Station Wagon
Check your valve clearance and make sure your rockers are letting the valves close. But you could have a burnt valve.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:38 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Can’t find the torque spec for the harmonic balancer. Anyone know? It’s almost back together yay!


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:49 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:49 pm
Posts: 827
Location: Houston, TX
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Are you driving the balancer in with a bolt? I don't think there is a torque spec, as Chrysler didn't usually leave a bolt installed there for slant sixes.

I just install the water pump pulley and tighten the balancer bolt until the belt grooves line up. If you're using a mechanical fan, make sure it clears the bolt head before you fire it up!

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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:52 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
SpaceFrank wrote:
Are you driving the balancer in with a bolt? I don't think there is a torque spec, as Chrysler didn't usually leave a bolt installed there for slant sixes.

I just install the water pump pulley and tighten the balancer bolt until the belt grooves line up. If you're using a mechanical fan, make sure it clears the bolt head before you fire it up!


The bolt was there when I removed it. The book doesn’t describe it only saying some had it and some didn’t. It wasn’t really very tight to remove but I surely don’t want it flying out while driving down the road. I started the balancer with light taps and a wooden block then used the bolt to finish the job.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:29 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Well it didn’t stay running :? I’m not sure what’s going on so it’s back to the drawing board


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:01 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 29
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
I’m wondering if this problem may be related to the ECU and not timing. I did use a old I had laying around when the original one died awhile back. I have all the parts to do the HEI swap so I guess now is as good a time as any.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing gear dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:28 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2679
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model*:
Quote:
do the HEI swap


Wise Words


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