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 Post subject: 6=8 Clifford 225 combo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:37 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:50 pm
Posts: 4
Car Model*: 1982 Dodge B150 Shorty
Howdy.

I have a 1982 B150 Shorty with the 225.
Running pretty solid, but the Holley 1945 probably needs a rebuild. Looking at the condition of some of the components on the engine, I’d like to also take the manifolds off and really clean and inspect. Seeing as how my future plans were a new carb and dual exhaust, (looking for a nice sound) I fell upon this deal from Clifford for the Weber 38 and all the components. I’m wondering on the practicality side, if you guys have heard or know anything about these. And as far as technical, I’m reading I will be losing the vacuum amplifier which I’m trying to lose clutter anyway. PO left a lot of vacuum lines capped, and cut, and placed in the wrong areas. I’m also seeing that I will need to drill and tap a barb to the intake for the power brake booster vacuum line. I’m assuming that is vital. Any info you have for deleting the vacuum amplifier, egr on the intake, changing from hard linkage to a cable for the throttle, and really, any advice you have in general. Thank you! This is also my first project vehicle, so I apologize for any obvious inexperience or wrong terminology.

https://www.shop.cliffordperformance.ne ... 68M225.htm


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:36 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7315
Location: SW Washington
Car Model*: 1954 Dodge C1-B8
Welcome to SlantSix.org!

Good luck in any dealings with Clifford. Ask if what you want is in stock. Ask for a tracking number and inform them that if you don't get one within 2 weeks you'll call your credit card company. I know this sounds harsh, but too many have been left in the lurch to give the benefit of the doubt. Do not buy a camshaft from Clifford.

Honestly I would not start by replacing the intake manifold and carburetor. I would start by making sure that the ignition functions as it should, the exhaust is free flowing (cats and carbs are a shotgun marriage) and the engine condition is good. Chances are good your ignition computer is not working well and a retrofit of a standard electronic ignition system will gain much in mileage and performance. The Holley 1945 can work well so long as the throttle shaft isn't too worn. Being a 1982 you have hydraulic lifters so no valve lash adjustments for you unless the engine was replaced with an earlier model with adjustable valve gear.

Dual exhaust on an inline six has a unique sound that some people like, but most do not. On a pickup I would use single 2 1/4" exhaust off the stock manifold so that you keep the valuable intake heat and choke function. I like a little exhaust sound so I use a Walker Dynomax Super Turbo, but most fold choose a Walker QuietFlow.

Again, welcome. Avail yourself of the articles section and the search function.

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Joshua


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:01 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 334
Location: Houston
Car Model*:
6=8 Mopar 225 Coombination

Never buy a product from a company that can't spell what they are selling.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:43 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 506
Location: Desoto Texas
Car Model*: 1972 Dodge Colt
Welcome!
Clifford used to be a great company, not so much anymore. Lots of messages here with comments. I would look around ask questions and pick and choose what is best for you. Ebay has intakes for sale and if you can find an old junk yard you might can score a super six complete setup, best stock system.

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Hyper_pak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23313
Location: North America
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Be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described and/or poorly made, and that's even assuming they actually ship you the parts you buy (not a good bet). Unfortunately they have become one of a few companies that are bloodsucking parasites on the hobby.

Fortunately you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, etc. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.

All that said, there's stuff you can/should do before changing to a different carb and intake. Do the Fuel line mod. Get rid of the Lean Burn and do the HEI upgrade. A good exhaust recipe is Dutra Duals, 2" pipe off of each of the two Dutra manifolds, into this wye connector, 2-1/4" pipe from there to this muffler, which is in Walker's QuietFlow SS premium OE line, all stainless steel (which is nice for durability). It's spec for late-model Ram trucks with the Hemi motor, so it's got plenty of flow capacity for your Slant-6. Coming off the muffler, put a 2" tailpipe with resonator. If I'm rich, I like a Flowmaster HP2 stainless unit with 2" in and out. If I'm broke, I like a Walker № 17198 4" round can-type unit, 2" in and 2" out. Tailspout behind the rear wheel, angled between 45° and 90° outboard, between 0° and 80° downward (don't do that clueless thing of running the tailpipe/s straight out the back).

In the United States it is a Federal crime to remove a catalytic converter from a vehicle originally equipped, except for the purpose of replacing it with a new catalytic converter. If you care, and/or you live somewhere that requires emission tests, or is likely to in the foreseeable future, then you will need to keep a cat (meow!) on the van. That doesn't mean you need to keep the original cats (meow!). If you will be running a cat (meow!), that has to be picked carefully, too. Most aftermarket cats (meow!), including virtually all of the so-called "performance" cats (meow!), are a waste of money. They are cheaply-made weaklings, warranted only for 25,000 miles and barely able to clean up the exhaust of even a clean-running fuel-injected vehicle...let alone the dirty exhaust of a carbureted Slant-6 engine. If you will be running a cat (meow!), then the trick is to get a California-spec one. They're type-approved to a much stricter durability and performance standard, so while they cost somewhat more up front, you won't have to spend more money later because they won't fail or melt in response to the dirty exhaust being put through them. The one to get would be this one (2-1/4" in and out).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:28 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:50 pm
Posts: 4
Car Model*: 1982 Dodge B150 Shorty
Thank you all so much. A lot to research and ponder. I will work on the mods and upgrades mentioned first. Further questions soon!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:29 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:25 pm
Posts: 198
Location: SW PA
Car Model*:
I have no doubt the newer 2x2bbl weber setup They sell performs great, but as stated, You might want to look around for a setup for sale from someone who changed Their mind and went V8, I've seen them for sale so,.....may have even been posted on FABO.......................
There are a lot of things as stated as well that can net a nice improvement in output and reliability, hit all those links and read.....welcome to the forum!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Board Sponsor
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:52 pm
Posts: 1186
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Car Model*:
Wait for those Clifford parts on Ebay or swap meets. From what I've heard you'd be waiting it you ordered new parts from them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:49 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:50 pm
Posts: 4
Car Model*: 1982 Dodge B150 Shorty
SlantSixDan wrote:
Be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described and/or poorly made, and that's even assuming they actually ship you the parts you buy (not a good bet). Unfortunately they have become one of a few companies that are bloodsucking parasites on the hobby.

Fortunately you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, etc. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.

All that said, there's stuff you can/should do before changing to a different carb and intake. Do the Fuel line mod. Get rid of the Lean Burn and do the HEI upgrade. A good exhaust recipe is Dutra Duals, 2" pipe off of each of the two Dutra manifolds, into this wye connector, 2-1/4" pipe from there to this muffler, which is in Walker's QuietFlow SS premium OE line, all stainless steel (which is nice for durability). It's spec for late-model Ram trucks with the Hemi motor, so it's got plenty of flow capacity for your Slant-6. Coming off the muffler, put a 2" tailpipe with resonator. If I'm rich, I like a Flowmaster HP2 stainless unit with 2" in and out. If I'm broke, I like a Walker № 17198 4" round can-type unit, 2" in and 2" out. Tailspout behind the rear wheel, angled between 45° and 90° outboard, between 0° and 80° downward (don't do that clueless thing of running the tailpipe/s straight out the back).

In the United States it is a Federal crime to remove a catalytic converter from a vehicle originally equipped, except for the purpose of replacing it with a new catalytic converter. If you care, and/or you live somewhere that requires emission tests, or is likely to in the foreseeable future, then you will need to keep a cat (meow!) on the van. That doesn't mean you need to keep the original cats (meow!). If you will be running a cat (meow!), that has to be picked carefully, too. Most aftermarket cats (meow!), including virtually all of the so-called "performance" cats (meow!), are a waste of money. They are cheaply-made weaklings, warranted only for 25,000 miles and barely able to clean up the exhaust of even a clean-running fuel-injected vehicle...let alone the dirty exhaust of a carbureted Slant-6 engine. If you will be running a cat (meow!), then the trick is to get a California-spec one. They're type-approved to a much stricter durability and performance standard, so while they cost somewhat more up front, you won't have to spend more money later because they won't fail or melt in response to the dirty exhaust being put through them. The one to get would be this one (2-1/4" in and out).


If I use the Dutra Duals, am I looking at issues with the lack of intake heat like mentioned elsewhere with the duals? This will be a nice weather vehicle and not a daily driver.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:12 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:52 pm
Posts: 126
Location: SW Washington
Car Model*: 66 Valiant, 82 D150, 94 Ram 2500 TCD
Quote:
If I use the Dutra Duals, am I looking at issues with the lack of intake heat like mentioned elsewhere with the duals? This will be a nice weather vehicle and not a daily driver.


No, you can retain the intake heat if you want. The front three exhaust flanges are cut off a stock manifold and the hole is welded up. Then the Dutra manifold is subbed in its place. That leaves the entire rear half of the stock exhaust in place, with the intake heat function intact.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23313
Location: North America
Car Model*:
It's your choice. If you buy the Dutra Dual setup as generally offered, you keep the intake manifold heat provision. If you don't want that (for example because you're going to run an intake setup that doesn't have provisions for heat, then buy just the front-3 manifold from the linked source (AussieSpeed) and buy this rear-3 manifold (which has just received a fresh coat of Cast Iron paint) from me.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:22 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:50 pm
Posts: 4
Car Model*: 1982 Dodge B150 Shorty
Dan, what kind of sound does your exhaust recipe result in? I would like a moderate throaty sound, with the lack of Highway drone, but it also won’t be a long road trip vehicle either, so I’m not worried about a little volume sending me to the loony bin. I am taking your advice to heart regardless, I’ve been reading a lot of your posts, and you know your stuff. Could you elaborate a little more on dual exhaust vs single pipe? Thanks for all the help.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:06 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23313
Location: North America
Car Model*:
If you want a little voice to it, make the tailpipe 2-1/4" instead of 2" and skip the resonator, all else same.

Dual pipes all the way back is a whole lot more money and effort, and gives less payback in terms of performance over and above what you get from doing the Dutra Duals up front with a thoughtfully-configured single-pipe/single-muffler system, but if you want to have some fun with extra growl without being obnoxius, get two of the linked mufflers (or two of this 4.0 Cherokee muffler and have the shop chop off the flanges on their input pipes) and run dual 2" pipes all the way back, with both tailspouts side-by-side on the same side of the vehicle. That'll give a real nice growl up through the gears and rap when you really get on it, but shouldn't be obnoxious or drone-y.

_________________
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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:29 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:15 am
Posts: 266
Location: N. California
Car Model*:
SlantSixDan wrote:
If you will be running a cat (meow!), then the trick is to get a California-spec one. They're type-approved to a much stricter durability and performance standard, so while they cost somewhat more up front,

Agreed, but with a caveat. I suspect the best telltale sign to look for is the 50k warranty instead of the 25k warranty. That would indicate a higher level of precious metal deposits.

There's an additional reason for the cost. For those who want to understand the online shopping experience, when you see seemingly identical products broken into 49-state vs CA: there's a CA-only issue that many of us have been swearing about since Jan 1, 2009, although it's beginning to alleviate somewhat. Prior to that date, a person was able to purchase (just like in any other state) a generic "universal fit" cat, sized based on engine displacement, something that any muffler shop could weld into place on the existing pipe... but those became illegal. Same story with the next step up the price ladder -- a "direct fit" bolt-in replacement which would fit multiple years among a vehicle platform... but at least there was a workaround for those. Welcome the birth of the CA version.

What's different? The CA model has been explicitly tested to confirm that it doesn't increase pollutants above the OEM level in that exact vehicle. You'd think a simple laboratory experiment ought to deliver such news, but the required process now involves a manufacturer providing the California Air Resources Board (CARB) with a list of vehicle applications for a specific cat, CARB selects "one or more" of those vehicles and dictates which one(s) to test. (Presumably the manufacturer must then locate and procure said vehicles, since the CARB doesn't indicate they are supplying them.) Once the mfr proves that their product works in the real world, and gains the coveted approval EO (Executive Order) number, the EO and the date of manufacture must be permanently marked on the cat in letters "at least 0.5 inch in height" and "easily readable from a distance of at least 5 feet." Lest you think that the marking is just for show, please know that after the smog technician looks underneath with his flashlight, he then matches the number against a large book to make sure you really do have a cat that is officially approved for the exact car you're driving. And if you don't, he's required to report you. (So, if you thought you'd save money by having a regular cat shipped in illegally from a buddy out of state, think again.) Guess who pays for all this extra jumping through hoops? That's why a CA converter costs 2x, 3x, 4x as much as it used to (49-state), for no reason other than govt bureaucracy.

I'm thankful that recently (2017?) CA started revisiting the EO exemptions for "universal fit" units again, though I'm sure there's still more $ involved than there ought to be. Have not had any time nor need to research that yet, but I suspect the universal fit with higher warranty is the product Dan is suggesting you look for.

Want to ponder the irony? Where are manufacturers finding old vehicles to test, when someone at the CA EPA has a bug up their butt about "old=bad"? CA hasn't yet found a way to outlaw old vehicles directly, but they are succeeding in removing them from the roads by making them too expensive to fix. When a cat dies, it's often the end for the whole car. Since it's the seller's responsibility to obtain a passing smog test before sale, it's technically against the rules to transfer your problem to a new owner (not to say some people don't make such an arrangement for the benefit of both parties.) But for Grandma/Grandpa getting rid of their "old" car, not having much experience selling cars, and not considered proposing a different strategy, guess how many really darn good vehicles end up in the junkyard? Many of which look better than a lot of the used cars on the market? Tons of 'em! What a sad state of affairs.

- Erik

PS. Oh, and before you buy a new cat... if you want it to last for any reasonable length of time, make sure you're running stoichiometric (closed loop) as often as possible. Running extended rich or lean periods will poison a cat very quickly. So will burning oil or antifreeze. But if you take care of a cat, it lasts a surprisingly long time, easily outliving its warranty. Remember your chemistry definition of a catalyst: something that aids a reaction but doesn't get used up in the reaction. Magic, if you ask me.

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Lots of early Valiants and Barracudas have crossed my path.
Also a handful of other toys for variety now and then.


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