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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:36 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:13 pm
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Location: Douglas GA
Car Model*: 1966 Plymouth Valiant
I know they changed the wheelbase of the A-body in 1967 and widened it slightly. So does that mean that the dimensions of the engine K-frame changed as well?

I'm asking because I'm thumbing over the thought of pulling the driveline out of my '66, and although I have found a couple of 66->older V8 cars, I have also found a '68 Valiant that still has the 273 V8 and the price is right. However, if the K-frame is not interchangeable I'd obviously pass on it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:47 am 
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K-frame is not interchangeable. Some folks have cut 2" (or approx.) out of the center of a 67-up K to mate it to a 66-down car, but that is some work.

Lou

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:26 am 
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What are you looking to do? Put the 66 drive train in the 68, or the 68 drive train in the 66? slant six or V-8?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:40 am 
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In 66 the V-8 and slant six k-frames were identical. The only difference was the motor mounts and the steering center link. The steering center link for V-8 cars has a dip in it to clar the V-8 oil pan. I once put a 225 in a 66 Barracuda Formula S andonly needed the 66 slant motor mounts and oil pan and pickup. You should be able to pretty easily pick the 273 and find correct motor mounts and steering parts to make it fit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:55 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

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Location: Douglas GA
Car Model*: 1966 Plymouth Valiant
Awesome, thanks for the information. My car is a 225 and am fittin' over the premise of putting a 318 I have in the shed into the car. The biggest motivation for the change is the possibility of overdrive in the future (without an absurdly tall first gear). The 225 it has I don't think has ever been touched internally other than a head gasket I did a few years back, and shes pretty tired. Sweats a considerable amount of horsepower as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:15 am 
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Supercharged
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Keep the six. You can mate the A500/A518 overdrive to the slant with the factory adaptor plates used in 64-68(?) taxis, cop cars, and A100 trucks and vans.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:34 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

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Location: Douglas GA
Car Model*: 1966 Plymouth Valiant
I considered that, but that's also going to preclude pulling the engine and rebuilding it, replacing it's slowly failing BBS, acquire and then replace the head for one with hardened valve seats, get a new radiator that actually fits/doesn't overheat (and isn't out of a 1986 Hardbody pickup truck), and consult several 3rd world oracles as to where in the blue blazes I would locate air conditioning bracketry for this period of car that also had factory (thompson) power steering. All of this in the middle of sweat-tea drinkin, fixin-to-do, technology is the devil, and "it was my *RELATIVE*'s car, so we're just gon' let 'er sit there" middle of nowhere South Georgia.

All of those problems go away with a small block. They still make parts & brackets new, and they're a lot easier to get. This wasn't a decision that was snap of the finger, I had bought the car because I liked the Slant 6. However, support is getting harder and harder to find and unless your wallet is as deep as the corvette sinkhole, its even worse for the early A-bodies. It's moreso out of necessity than of real want, and the 318 it's going to have isn't going to be a showstopper by any stretch of the word.

EDIT: Forgot one more stereotype; "How much you want for that car?"***

***Translation: "I'll give you $100 for it. In payments."


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:51 pm 
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Supercharged
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Scooper wrote:
I considered that, but that's also going to preclude pulling the engine and rebuilding it, replacing it's slowly failing BBS,


Why?

Scooper wrote:
acquire and then replace the head for one with hardened valve seats


Again, why? If the hardenend seat thing owrries you, just get a head from the mid 70s to 1987.

Scooper wrote:
get a new radiator that actually fits/doesn't overheat (and isn't out of a 1986 Hardbody pickup truck)


That's a legitimate concern in an early A body

Scooper wrote:
and consult several 3rd world oracles as to where in the blue blazes I would locate air conditioning bracketry for this period of car that also had factory (thompson) power steering.


I like the 80s era Dodge vands that were equipped with a slant six and AC. They have the sanden AC compressort mount AND mount the AC compressor a little closer to the engine to fit in the van engine bay. Is there some reason why you can't convert to a later power steering pump? The gearbox shouldn't care what kind of pump supplies the pressuried fluid.

Scooper wrote:
All of this in the middle of sweat-tea drinkin, fixin-to-do, technology is the devil, and "it was my *RELATIVE*'s car, so we're just gon' let 'er sit there" middle of nowhere South Georgia.


I can't help you with that.

Scooper wrote:
All of those problems go away with a small block.


Not really true. The V8 was never offered in early As, so your cooling problems will actually get worse. You still have the problem re: PS pump brackets if you are keeping the original pump, but the other brackets are easy to get. Support for a v-8 in an early A will be about as hard to find as support for a slant, probably more so since it is not a factory offered motor.

But it is your car. Sounds like you have your mind made up. In a lightweight early A I don't think you NEED overrive. You woudl probably do just as well to get a lockup 904 and be happy with three speeds.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:15 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:13 pm
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Location: Douglas GA
Car Model*: 1966 Plymouth Valiant
They began offering the 273 mid-1964, so early A's did have a V8 option (Commando if desired at that).

The engine would have to come out for a rebuild. From what evidence I can see (and also from having the head off), the block is still stock. It's leaking oil from any place it can, but primarily a very very tired real main seal. Being a 2pc rope seal, the crank has to come out. Might as well pull the pistons, hone it, and put new rings in at that rate.

It's BBS would need to be replaced, or at least a decent core to be found to replace it's main body. It's heavily warped, and it's fuel-inlet threads are stripped and have been JB Welded (and done so again by myself) probably since before I was born.

Replacing the head itself alone is entirely doable, but finding someone down here just willing to sell a head vs. a whole engine is difficult to say the least. If they are even willing to sell it.

A local vintage junkyard actually has an later SL6 A-body that has all the brackets, accessory drives, and everything else for AC as well as a saginaw PS setup, but that brings me to the next dilemma. The way the K-frame currently is, this car is VERY picky about it's power steering pump. I picked up a 70's sag-style truck pump with the entire bracket setup, and it won't work because it can't sit low/close enough; it contacts the engine crossmember. Be it a combination of narrow frame, biscuit motor mounts, or both, clearance is an issue. So being I had already tried updating them and failed, I'm shy from spending even more money to possibly fail even harder.

The cooling situation is real. I have an aluminum V8 radiator already I bought several years ago, but even though it fits, it won't clear a fan. Of any flavor. And being an AC car, it won't clear pushers inside of the grill/valance area either with the condenser in place.

And even if I managed to wizard solutions to all of these problems, I would be spending just as much (if not more) just to keep the slant (with AC/PS) as I would to put in a V8 I already own.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:41 pm 
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Supercharged
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Oh, by "early A" I thought you were talking about the 60-62 body style, not the 63-66 body style. My mistake.

Only you can weight the pros and cons of the swap. Just remember it is more than just the engine. Exhaust, transmission, accessories, radiator, etc... must also all be dealt with. Along with brakes, suspension, etc...

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:03 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:13 pm
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Location: Douglas GA
Car Model*: 1966 Plymouth Valiant
Oh yeah, I know. I'm still not 100% sold on it. If I can actually find the hardware I need, the 6er will stay. But given I've already been searching for a touch over 4 years now, I'm poking around into Plan B.


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