The saga of my one-and-only motor vehicle that hasn’t run since March continues….

Review:
* Engine/vehicle was running fine, other than leaking oil and unbeknownst to me being a rolling time bomb due to an undiscovered fuel pump diaphragm leak.
* All work has been done with the engine in place installed in the van. Vehicle details in the sig line at the bottom of this post.

May-August:
* Sealed bottom edge of oil pan. Seems successful.
* Leakage continued: front (crankshaft) seal. Replaced seal and timing set. Did NOT degree in the cam: put the new set on exactly in the position the old set had been. It fit that way without having to turn the crankshaft or camshaft at all. I ignored the timing dots, though on a quick eyeball they looked correct. Added an oil slinger.

Late August-Present:
* First run of engine after replacing timing set and front seal: no oil leak (so far), but very noisy. Sounded like it was the new timing set, which i did pre-lube before putting the timing cover back on. Ran the engine about 20 min., running Evans Prep Fluid through the system. Engine remained noisy until it warmed enough to drop to curb idle, then it sounded normal, or even a touch quieter than what i’m used to. I should have tried revving up higher to find out if the noise came back, but didn’t.
* This first run is where i discovered the fuel pump diaphragm leak, so obviously i had to shut the engine off and not run it until that was resolved, which for a number of reasons has taken over a month.
* There is no audio recording of this first new timing set run.

* Changed the oil (Castrol GTX 10W-30) and oil filter (Wix 51068) due to the fuel pump failure.
* Thanks to great advice here, finally got the NOS fuel pump installed and all ready to go yesterday. With the cooling system fully drained for weeks after the Evans Prep run, it was time to install the Evans Waterless Coolant. Filled the system as much as possible before starting the engine.
* Startup cranking sounded totally normal.
* Once the engine caught, the noise was again very loud. Here’s a sample, recorded from behind the engine inside the passenger compartment with the engine cover (doghouse) removed.
* Between the noise seeming very loud/abnormal and white smoke pouring off the exhaust manifold from a coolant leak at the thermostat housing from a loose hose clamp, i did not run the engine more than about 3-5 min., so i’m only part-way through the Evans coolant installation.
* The noise was so loud that it was difficult for me to place a point of origin.

Thoughts on what’s going on here?

Thanks as always!

_________________
1981 B-150 short Van, stock 225, California emissions package, Electronic Spark Advance (digital Lean Burn), Non-feedback Holley 1945, AT
Driven for economy, not for speed.

Just a guess, but oil slinger on backwards?

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Shouldn’t be. Read many posts here and worked carefully. It’s dished out: outside edge away from the engine and sprocket/chain. Not all that obvious on this pic, but maybe this will help:

_________________
1981 B-150 short Van, stock 225, California emissions package, Electronic Spark Advance (digital Lean Burn), Non-feedback Holley 1945, AT
Driven for economy, not for speed.

Definitely sounds like something rubbing.
I would do a complete visual with the motor off, looking for something that got moved around and is now rubbing on an external hub, pulley, belt or torque converter.
If all of that looks fine, restart the motor and confirm that the noise is rpm dependent.
See if maybe the noise goes away at low or high rpm’s.
There is the trick of using a piece of hose with a funnel on one end and with the funnel over your ear probing with the hose to find the noise. Be very aware of moving belts and hubs.
Good Luck

_________________
Doo Ron Ron and the Duke of Earl are friends of mine.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX8Nj8ABEI8

Hmmm. Bent timing cover? Possibly split the damper down the keyway when installing? I had that once and it made a rattle, although not super loud. Luckly I caught it before it blew apart.

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines

Thank you for all this. It sounds so awful i’ve been concerned that there might be something internal and could be imminent damage. For sure i had all the belts, vibration damper, etc. off, and the belts are on tighter than they’d been (too loose previously), so plenty for me to carefully check there. I do have funnels with attached hose pieces all ready to go, so will try that to narrow down. As well, i could temporarily and briefly loosen or remove various belts to find out if the noise changes at all.



Anything is possible. I worked carefully and slowly when putting the timing cover back on, so i’d not think it got bent at all. I’ll look carefully at the damper. Drove it on slowly with a bolt and washers, and it seemed to go on without especial issues apart from keeping the engine from turning. I did remove the starter and wedged a flywheel tooth with a screwdriver to keep the engine from turning, so maybe there’s something there, though the cranking sounds totally normal and on the earlier run once it dropped to idle the engine sounded fine.

Inclement weather today, so it’ll likely be tomorrow or Tuesday before i get into the garage and look into this.

Keep those thoughts, ideas, and suggestions coming, and i will eventually report back with findings (or that i gave up).

Thanks again all!

_________________
1981 B-150 short Van, stock 225, California emissions package, Electronic Spark Advance (digital Lean Burn), Non-feedback Holley 1945, AT
Driven for economy, not for speed.

100 karma points to DadTruck!

Careful visual inspection revealed only 3 mm of clearance between the timing tab bracket and inner side of the air pump belt:


Removing the air pump belt and fastening it safely out of the way resulted in a wholly normal engine sound: loud noise wholly gone.

Noticed there has been some wear between that belt and the bracket:


The timing cover had been slightly offset, evidenced by asymmetrical wear on the front and the crankshaft not being centered in the seal before cover removal. I don’t remember what direction it was. When i reinstalled the cover, i was careful to center it, to hopefully minimize leakage.

Noticed that the timing tab was not quite on its positioning indentation pin on the cover. I had not touched it: it remained exactly where it had been since i got the van. Marked the tab’s position very carefully with tape on the vibration damper, then experimented with adjusting the tab to the index/positioning pin. It only shifted about 1/2°, but felt like it fit correctly, and the tab itself was more evenly spaced from the vibration damper along its length. Unfortunately that only bought me maybe 1 mm more clearance if any at all.

Experimented with trying to move the idler pulley as far towards the passenger side as possible, to try and get more of a gap between the belt and bracket. Did not really get any more.

What sort of gap is normal between this belt and bracket?

Tried putting the belt back on with what very slight additional clearance i was able to provide. The noise was back. Used the hose and funnel listening technique:

* Alternator quiet
* Valve cover silent
* Idler pulley (just behind the rotating pulley) very loud
* Air pump also had noise but not as much as the pulley

Removed the pulley (again, after trying to shift its lateral position) and spun it by hand: basically smooth, though there are slight knocks at one or two places in the rotation.
Here’s the pulley in question:


4 1/4" O.D., 1/2" center hole

This vehicle originally had air conditioning. One memorable northbound Interstate 5 trip, the air compressor, which at that point was doing nothing other than being an overweight too big idler pulley, broke 2 of its 3 mounts. Removed the belt and compressor, and drove on. (Yes i did cook at least one of the catalytic converters. That’s another story for another time.) That very same day soon as i was near a major metro area with a Dodge dealership, i dropped by the parts department and got the official idler pulley hardware for vehicles with an air pump but no air conditioning.

Seems like the bearing could be pressed out and replaced, but i’m wondering whether it would be better to seek a 4 1/2" pulley, to get a little more of a gap between the belt and the timing tab bracket. I know nothing about how easy/difficult it is to find more or less what i would think is a generic v-belt pulley of the correct size with a decent bearing.

Only as a test, i’m thinking of spraying in some high-quality lubricating oil into the bearing and remounting the pulley to find out if it can be quiet for a couple of minutes at the high idle where it has been so noisy, to verify that tor problem is indeed the pulley bearing.

Thoughts? Ideas? What would (any of) you do?

_________________
1981 B-150 short Van, stock 225, California emissions package, Electronic Spark Advance (digital Lean Burn), Non-feedback Holley 1945, AT
Driven for economy, not for speed.

I'm having a difficult time with the prospect of that idler pulley being on there since day 1 and this issue only cropping up after the re-installation of the removed components. Did you dismantle the belt drive components related to your belt interference issue?

I get the feeling something may not have been reassembled correctly. It is difficult to see in the photos, but all of the later slants I have seen/worked on had the timing tab sticking out the driver side of the cover, so access for visual purposes would be the same. This appears to be sticking almost straight up towards the water pump. Is that the case?

To attempt to get the belt further from the timing tab, a larger pulley would certainly help; but it occurs to me that something else is off if there wasn't an issue prior.

My .02

~THOR~

_________________
1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Certified Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Day 1 for the pulley was when i retrofitted it to replace a disused A/C compressor with 2 out of 3 mounts broken. The A/C was factory and long-dead from a prior owner’s front end collision. All the compressor was doing was acting like a pulley. I used the official Chrysler parts specified for the non-A/C model of my make/year, purchased new from i believe Hayward Dodge back around 1989 when parts were still available.

The timing cover has been recently off. I was very careful initially not to move the timing tab, and the cover allows very little degree of freedom—not enough as far as i can tell to materially affect the belt clearance. Once the clearance problem showed up, i noticed that the timing tab was not quite in its factory index indent on the cover. Made a minor adjustment which only altered the timing display by 1/2 degree if that, and gave a tiny bit more clearance.

This belt was adjusted (by me) much tighter after servicing (when the noise first showed up than before.



It’s facing towards the passenger side, as it has on this vehicle since i’ve had it.



Thank you for your thoughts. In terms of the noise, i’m still thinking pulley bearing wear, triggered by my tensioning the belt far tighter than it had been. It had been loose before and tended to slip when the engine was first started. When i looked up the part number for the pulley, which was also used in some Jeep models, there were many reports of noisy bearings and seeking replacement pulleys or bearings for them.

In terms of insufficient clearance wear near the timing tab, i think it may have been like this for a long time and i just recently noticed.

Life events have me living over 1000 miles away from my usual home and the van, likely for many months, so for now van work is on hold and i can’t go out and check things/take pictures. Please keep the ideas coming, if anyone has any others—especially larger pulley sources.

))Sonic((

_________________
1981 B-150 short Van, stock 225, California emissions package, Electronic Spark Advance (digital Lean Burn), Non-feedback Holley 1945, AT
Driven for economy, not for speed.

Brief follow-up: the noise was indeed the pulley bearing.

Found a Gates 38040 works. Slightly larger O.D., otherwise fits nicely. For my particular engine there is enough clearance for the larger O.D. (123 mm vs. 108 mm for the Chrysler original part), and this moves the belt slightly further away from the timing tab.

Since installing this pulley, the engine again sounds the way it always has in the past, when running correctly.

))Sonic((

_________________
1981 B-150 short Van, stock 225, California emissions package, Electronic Spark Advance (digital Lean Burn), Non-feedback Holley 1945, AT
Driven for economy, not for speed.

Even though this is an old thread. Thanks for the follow up. This potentially helps others.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170

Woohoo, congrats!
Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines