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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:57 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Waco, TX
Car Model: '69 D100
I see there are quite a few threads on 4-spd swaps already, but I have some specific and maybe stupid questions I haven't been able to answer on my own. For context I could really use OD in my '69 D100 to better cruise on the highway without changing my 3.5 rear gear. It currently has the A-903 on the column and I am considering the A-833OD. Some questions:

- How many variations on this transmission are there?

- Do these include different lengths of input shaft and bell? There's very little clearance between my under-dash AC unit and the tranny tunnel and I'm not sure a shifter can be bent to fit.

- If that's not a solution can the shifter be relocated another way? Or does anyone have a '69-'71 truck who's managed to squeeze the shifter beneath/in front of their AC unit?

- Am I right that the A-833OD has 3rd gear at 1:1, so it's a bit like an A903 3-spd with an extra OD gear? That would be good for how I drive.

- Is this transmission the best option anyway in terms of ease, cost, and performance?

Thanks everybody. I think OD would really improve the practicality of my truck, I'm just trying to figure out how it all comes together.

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'69 D100, 225 SL6, A745→NP435


Last edited by Zack on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:16 am 
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3 Deuce Weber
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Location: North Carolina
Car Model: 1971 Valiant
http://www.slantsix.org/articles/4-spee ... speed1.htm

Far as I can tell there are 2 close ratio (2.66 and 2.44 1st gear) and two wide ratio (both 3.09 1st, including the OD version).

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:27 pm
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Location: Salem, OR
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Quote:
- How many variations on this transmission are there?


The A-833OD is pretty much same on ratios, the variations are literally on tailshaft length ( A/F body-short, and B/E/Truck-long), internal gear spline counts,
and the spline count on the output shaft.

Quote:
- Do these include different lengths of input shaft and bell? There's very little clearance between my under-dash AC unit and the tranny tunnel and I'm not sure a shifter can be bent to fit.


No, no difference in depth of bellhousing.

Quote:
- If that's not a solution can the shifter be relocated another way? Or does anyone have a '69-'71 truck who's managed to squeeze the shifter beneath/in front of their AC unit?


The stock truck unit has a plate that relocates the shift back a few inches so it clears the late model dash.

Quote:
- Am I right that the A-833OD has 3rd gear at 1:1, so it's a bit like an A904 3-spd with an extra OD gear? That would be good for how I drive.


That is almost correct, the difference being that the manual transmission will not have the torque multiplication and slippage the automatic has...the OD will act more
like a wide ratio 3 spd with the option of an OD gear.

Quote:
- Is this transmission the best option anyway in terms of ease, cost, and performance?


It will depend on budget, mechanical ability and what you are asking it to do...also availability of parts is going to be a big issue, that eventually will
determine the "cost".


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:30 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Waco, TX
Car Model: '69 D100
DusterIdiot wrote:
The stock truck unit has a plate that relocates the shift back a few inches so it clears the late model dash.

Do you mean any truck post-71? The '69-'71 trucks look like they have the shifter smack under the dash. There's a guy on the Facebook group "Slant Six Fan Club" with a late model truck who's swapping his /6 and 833OD for a 440, I'd love to take it off his hands but he's all the way in NJ.

Quote:
That is almost correct, the difference being that the manual transmission will not have the torque multiplication and slippage the automatic has...the OD will act more like a wide ratio 3 spd with the option of an OD gear.

Whoops, I actually meant an A903, I have the manual 3 speed on the column. I corrected that in the OP. That's perfect for me, the 3 gears are fine around town, but I wish I had a longer gear on the freeways.

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'69 D100, 225 SL6, A745→NP435


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Location: Salem, OR
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Quote:
Do you mean any truck post-71?


More like 1975-1987...

You check around at local junkyards, and even look to see if a setup exists close by on www.car-part.com
The yard might already have junked the vehicle and only have the transmission, or flywheel on the shelf if they list one FYI.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:17 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Waco, TX
Car Model: '69 D100
Alright, there are a few of those '75-'87 trucks still around in junkyards, so I might be able to pull something together.

One more question, for a '69 truck that's already manual, what's the complete list of parts I'll need to go from A903 to A833-OD? From the 4 spd article I gather: long tailshaft transmission, preferably with shifter and adapter plate, aluminum bell housing, presumably a new driveshaft... Does my truck already have the 124-tooth flywheel? My understanding is that for the OD bell housing, I will also need a "unique clutch fork mount that you will not find on regular three speed or four speed bell housings," as well as "the longer V8 clutch fork" itself. I assume the truck already has the 10" clutch that should be interchangeable, correct? Is that all?

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'69 D100, 225 SL6, A745→NP435


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:13 am 
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Location: Salem, OR
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Quote:
Does my truck already have the 124-tooth flywheel?


That's 122 tooth flywheel.... the easy way to answer that without taking your assembly apart is: high mount starter = yes, low mount starter = no

Grocery list will be:

transmission
Driveline and yoke (tape measure your current assembly)
Shifter, shift rods, shift plate
Stick, Bezel and boot
Bellhousing and inspection plates
Clutch fork, boot, and return spring
Z-bar, fork rod, pedal to linkage (some of this may transfer if you have a high starter setup... but there is a difference in the early bell/ late bell linkage mounts)
I would also get the flywheel as a spare if yours already is the correct type (these aren't as easy to get anymore)
You will need the clutch cover bolts, you can order a new clutch over the counter
Depending on the prong for reverse lights and neutral safety switch in your truck, you may also want to grab the wiring connection and length of wiring in case you need
to adapt it.

One other item to contend with... is the cross member... I forget if the late-60's trucks still had the isolation mounts for the transmission at the bellhousing or if it had a true
crossmember and tailshaft sandwich mount like the late trucks do... if you have the the early bellhousing style, you'll need to fabricate a rear crossmember...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:29 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Waco, TX
Car Model: '69 D100
DusterIdiot wrote:
122 tooth flywheel....

The site article says 124, or am I looking at the wrong section? I do have the high starter setup.

Quote:
neutral safety switch in your truck

Well, there isn't one as far as I can tell...

Quote:
I forget if the late-60's trucks still had the isolation mounts for the transmission at the bellhousing or if it had a true crossmember and tailshaft sandwich mount like the late trucks do...

Will check this and report back

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'69 D100, 225 SL6, A745→NP435


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:40 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Waco, TX
Car Model: '69 D100
Back looking into this at the moment. I found a complete '87 D-150 with /6 backed by 4OD trans. I think the plan will be to do the swap with my mechanic, and either sell the donor truck to pay for the work or give it to him. I've got a pretty strong idea that he's going to want greenbacks and not a transmission-less truck as payment, so maybe I'll make a FS post in a few months for the leftover engine.

If I buy the truck complete, will that be absolutely everything I need for the swap? It's cheaper than some bare trannys on fleabay.

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'69 D100, 225 SL6, A745→NP435


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:26 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
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Location: Indianapolis
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With the transmission swap,
I would install a new clutch disk, pressure plate and throw out bearing, it will never be easier than when everything is apart. Not the cheapest clutch set, but NAPA has a set that has a throw out bearing with a metal housing. I am thinking that you will be wanting to order an '87 clutch set even though your truck is a 69 as the flywheel, bell housing, linkage,, are all '87. You can move the clutch mounting bolts over from the salvage truck to your truck.
Verify that the crank in your existing motor is drilled and reamed for the pilot shaft bushing and has a bushing in place.
If it was my truck, again because everything is apart, I would install new u joints in the drive shaft.
Since the a 833 will have the fluid drained, you will want to have new, clean transmission fluid on hand.
Also, check the speedo gear in the replacement tranny to see how it matches to the tire size on your truck. You may be moving the speedo gear from your existing tranny over to the swapped in unit. The 87 tranny will have a VSS at the tranny speedo gear housing cover, hang on to that, very handy if you ever add cruse control, but you would also need an electronic driven speedometer. Since your truck has a speedometer drive cable you will be transferring over the speed gear cover from your tranny.

And you will want to invest a little time cleaning and lubricating the shifter assembly and shifter rods. There is a grease fitting on the shifter assembly, after cleaning, lube it well, will probably be the first lube since the truck was built.
The threaded shifter rod ends need to be movable so the shifter/rods can be properly adjusted. The FSM has a simple and effective process for adjusting the shift linkage.

I have no idea how a clutch / brake pedal set from an 87 will match up to a 69 truck for mounting to the firewall. Remember you may need to reinforce or brace the firewall on the 69 so it does not flex due to the added pressure of the clutch pedal.
Same with the tranny cross member, may fit perfect, may require some fab work, should be possible and will make a nice combo when finished.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:07 am 
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DadTruck wrote:
The 87 tranny will have a VSS at the tranny speedo gear housing cover, hang on to that, very handy if you ever add cruse control, but you would also need an electronic driven speedometer. Since your truck has a speedometer drive cable you will be transferring over the speed gear cover from your tranny.



Are you sure? My 88 D-150 has a mechanical speedo setup, and the mechanical cruise control, under the hood.
Mine is a carb 360. 1988-89 318 was FI, and might have a VSS for the computer (I'm not sure). Slant six never had FI, so no computer, and most likely did not have a VSS.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:05 am 
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Supercharged

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Rethinking this, the VSS that I have on my 83 D150 is from the ‘90 D150 that I also got the electronic gauge cluster and 28 gal fuel tank.
In my storage area, I also have a hydraulic clutch set up with a hydraulic slave cylinder that works the throw out bearing arm. I believe that came off a Dodge D series, was that off an 87?, as I know I stripped an 87 D150 for the engine and OD tranny,, that is the engine that I am building up currently.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:58 am 
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Supercharged

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Location: Indianapolis
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I checked RockAuto, the repair parts listing for an '87 D150 shows a clutch slave cylinder available.

that means you will not need to mess with a Z bar and mounting a Z bar stud to the frame.

there should be a hydraulic cylinder and bracket that mounts forward of the throw out bearing arm,
and a hydraulic line leading up to a small reservoir mounted near the brake master cylinder.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:33 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Waco, TX
Car Model: '69 D100
There may be some confusion, my truck is actually a 3-speed manual on the column (A903). Does this mean everything from trans to clutch pedal will need to be swapped out with the hydraulic stuff? Or can I mate the existing manual linkage to the A-833OD? What year did trucks go from Z-bar linkage to hydraulic? Wondering if '87 is actually an ideal donor or not. I still need the rearmost mounted shifter from the '75-'89 trucks in order to clear my AC unit.

Edit: actually, I made another mistake, the truck I am looking at is an '84 (not an '87), and RockAuto does NOT show a clutch slave cylinder available. So, looks like I can use a Z bar setup. Anybody know if the linkage for A903/A833 is fairly interchangeable?

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'69 D100, 225 SL6, A745→NP435


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
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Location: Indianapolis
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if your truck has a clutch pedal, the z bar is already in place

if you get the OD transmission from the 84 truck it will have the large diameter 5.125 input bearing housing diameter
all OD trannys have that. You will need the bell housing from the 84 truck as the bell housing in the 69 truck with the A 903 will have a smaller input bearing and the matching smaller center pilot hole in the bell housing.

I am thinking that the 84 truck will be a good donor vehicle, you will need the tranny and bell housing and possible the transmission support from the '84.
I would still put a new clutch kit in. It will never be easier. You will also be able to remove the shift levers from the steering column in your truck as the Hurst shifter from the 84 will come through the floor.

here is an article that does a good job explaining mopar manual trannys and bell housings

http://www.slantsix.org/articles/4-spee ... speed1.htm

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX8Nj8ABEI8


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