So that is a 130T flywheel and the pressure plate all fits? If so that is great news!!!

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

I see that QT has done what I had to do myself on mine a few years back, cover up the starter pinion hole.

Actually, there appears to be several other differences in your unit as well. Re-engineered?

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Sex, drags, and rock & roll.
Dick, 225% crazy.
Hobby (cars, that is) Photos link

Rick, yes, it is a 130 tooth and an 11" pressure plate. I don't know much about them other than they're very 'normal' parts. The flywheel came from ebay years ago, I think it is for a big block but not sure. It is a Schiefer steel part. I think I have an aluminum one, too but it's MIA. I would use a 10.5" setup but it's good to know the 11" would fit.

Old, why did you cover the starter pinion? Is it a rule requirement? I have older bellhousings with and without the starter nose covered.

The next obstacle for me is if I wanted to use the Viper 6 speed...I'd have to mill off the rear plate of the QT bell. That's hard to do to a brand new part! Actually I wouldn't mind but I also have other ideas that would require me to retain the rear plate it already has.

Anyway...my guess is now is a good time to buy one of these if you ever want one. It might be worth a call to QT to find out if they are planning to discontinue them but I'm guessing that's why they cut the price.

I just ordered mine!! Now where did I plant that money tree?

Covering the starter hole keeps the shrapnel from exiting the bellhousing. That location is right below the brake line that runs across to the RH side of the car in most applications. That line could easily be cut in a clutch explosion. I routed mine to the front and around for that reason.

Thanks for the fit test and info! Now to get my clutch pressure plate and TOB. Probably going with the McLeod stuff. It held up extremely well in Ryan's Dart. Then I will have another winter project!!!

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

Good deal! What gear box are you using?

I notice McLeod sells a nice looking clutch for under $200.....I know there are better ones out there but this one sure looks like it would be a good clutch at a good price.

McLeod StreetPro Clutch Kits #75109

I'd also look at LUK clutches. They're not a 'race' brand but are known in the repair industry as the go-to clutch by shops that don't want 'come backs'.

I will be running a factory 833, and would like to have it modified by Liberty for drag racing. No synchronizers.....etc I will have to look up what was in the Dart but I know it was a dual friction material since his was a street car.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

If you have one of those bells could you get a center to center measurement on those bolts? That would be helpful! Thanks!

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

After researching the above 10.5" with 23 1" dia spline I noticed it's suppose to fit a mid 70's and up Dodge Van
1) does the van come with a 130 tooth flywheel?

2) does the 3.7 L van come with the bell to clear the flywheel?

......and if the answer is right (for us non-racers suffering from clutch disc hill kill) is the starter in the right location up high?

And if the answer to that is all a yes......does clutch pedal effort rise substantially when jumping from a 9 1/4 to a 10.5" with a high performance McLeod PP?

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

Pretty much it. In the 'Brick I sit along side the mill, such that the shift lever you see is right to hand. Thus the hole was even more personal in that installation.

_________________
Sex, drags, and rock & roll.
Dick, 225% crazy.
Hobby (cars, that is) Photos link

-1) does the van come with a 130 tooth flywheel?

If it got ordered with a 318 or 360 engine....

If it was a standard slant six you got the 122 tooth flywheel and the 10" B&B clutch... if it was a big block
it got the 143 tooth monster with a dual pattern flywheel for 10 1/2" or 11" clutches...

If you had a truck with the 225 and an NP435 you got a low mount starter bell with the 143 tooth flywheel and
11" clutch.... (or if an early 60's truck you get that awesome "more than 143 tooth" flywheel that doesn't quite fit
right in the late NP bellhousings....)

Ma Mopar didn't do many special things for low performance vehicles, or as the bean counters red penned the end of
a lot of muscle options....remember guys at auto parts makers/ suppliers are relying on published information and aren't
100% verifying parts compatibility anymore....if the computer says so.... (10 years ago, I downloaded catalogs
for RAM, LUK, and McCleod and crossed the combinations looking for a better standard clutch that would hold up
to my size 15 launch).

-2) does the 3.7 L van come with the bell to clear the flywheel?

No. I pulled a bell out of a late 1970's van with an 833OD...the shifter setup was interesting, but the bell and clutch were all stock slant
stuff...



The McCleod setup is a diaphragm clutch so it will require less effort to actuate compared to the borg and beck units (stock mechanical linkage users will require
the over center spring to be removed for it to work right....)

-Just for more R&D thoughts, I finished the junkyard 11" truck clutch conversion in my Duster and mated it to a 12:1 Fat Pak Dual Dual 225 Forged crank special.... I used a LUK
diaphragm clutch for a 1980's slant six truck:

The effort to actuate the clutch was fine (much like the SPEC 10" diaphragm clutches I had run/done in...and much less than the 9 1/4" B&B...I had to put a block of wood under the pedal
so I wouldn't over actuate the pedal and ruin the diaphragm fingers).

It had no problem taking the full brunt of the race only engine (with the nitto drag radials on back)...launch was exceptionally positive....but...

The weight of the big flywheel seemed to exacerbate getting a quick shift.... upshifts or downshifts seemed to take longer than 'normal' to get
the dog teeth and synchros to line up....I then put it on jackstands to see if it was something else that was going on...and found even the iron
cased 833OD was only as strong as it's internals...a run up the clock on the stands at high rpms stuck the shifter in 3-OD and wouldn't go back to 1-2/R...
It wasn't the clutch or linkage...the extra stress on the transmission did in the lever lockout and stuck in 3-OD. (Luckily I had plenty of spare parts
to remedy that....)....

The other 2 issues with the conversion is the starter to steering crosslink clearance is very tight...and takes up the room needed
for exhaust routing... and the last issue is the exhaust from the dual duals had to be routed to a single pipe through the opening
in the K where the sway bar mount goes (the arrangement is like the duals in a standard trans 63-66 A-body).

If you can get a 130 Tooth to work with the modified bell with a high mount starter, that would be the better path.

I would probably use a mid-90's Dodge Dakota Aluminum Flywheel to save the extra weight overall, and stored flywheel energy on
the transmission when it's not in direct....which should alleviate issues with synchro line up during high rpm upshifts. Remember
to egg that one hole on the flywheel that doesn't line up with the slant crank bolt pattern...

Diaphragm clutch is preferred, but if you are doing some clutch dumps, use the McCleod Unit, the LUK unit is well built but
is not up to the 5-6000 rpm hammering and will cost someone some limbs... the 11" truck unit did fine and was cheap, and will
end up in somebody's slant six D-150 some day... the 10 1/2" shouldn't be any extra work than the 10" or 11" and would be nicer if your
knees are shot...

Hopefully the QT bell also has provisions to bolt a scatter sheild to it, as it doesn't look solid enough to contain the frags
if the clutch lets loose.


Being disappointed in the conversion, I pulled the engine and combination... will put something else back together
before I sell the Duster.

Hopefully that helps in the R&D department. Food for thought and all.

Have a happy 4th, and good luck guys.

DI, The Quicktime bell is an SFI certified blow proof according to their video.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

I will make some measurements of the starter locations, if I can.

The QT is quite heavy. It has the plate that goes between the block and bell, and the bell itself is every bit as thick as an older Lakewood.

In addition, the QT's spun, rather than simple plate. Rather a bit stronger as regards impact resistance.

I won't recommend it, as it certainly voids formal certification, but I wound up slicing the plate into two pieces after the first season. Not having to remove the flywheel every time made it far easier to deal with tear downs & re-assemblies. Almost certainly reduces total strength slightly. I rationalize it with the steel flywheel/clutch can/pressure plate package I use, an OZ competition set-up from Hemi Performance that I replaced the Spec set-up with when that proved itself not up to the task.

Have several seasons on the present package, and have yet to replace even the disc.

_________________
Sex, drags, and rock & roll.
Dick, 225% crazy.
Hobby (cars, that is) Photos link

Rick, I looked at 4 bells I have and only one has the dual holes. It's a big block bell. But, in looking at it I realize it is only useful to this discussion as it shows that they considered two different flywheels and the resulting starter locations.

That's because this bell is set up to handle the normal 11" big block flywheel and also the early 426 Hemi flywheel that used the direct drive starter. Those parts are all unique to the early years and no one uses them now unless they're staying original.

You can see the two sets of holes, and how they are not even spaced the same. The direct drive starter has a different spread. You can also see how they accounted for the two different snout positions with a cup that can be moved.

Thanks very much for the info and testing, Gregcon. I just ordered the QT BH from the Holley site. I just added an 833 4spd (OD) car to my Slanted fleet, so this might come in handy! I bet a compact multi-disc smallblock Mopar clutch would also fit nicely on a V8 130T flywheel. Does the starter bolt up to interface with that flywheel? Maybe I missed that detail. If not, I'm sure it can be modified.

Dick, thanks for the tip (retip?) about the OZ clutch too. Good to know. Seymour sent 2-3 of the nice McLeod 9.25" 1800 lb PPs with his White Valiant so I am set for a while, but more options are good.

Cheers,

Lou

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