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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:09 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model*: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
Anyone have a significant amount of slant 6 miles and shifts on a Hyd. throwout bearing in concert with a diaphram clutch with a 833od trans & 76 bellhousing? What/whose bearing and clutch did you use successfully?

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:25 am 
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3 Deuce Webber

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:11 am
Posts: 89
Car Model*:
not with the hydraulic throw out bearing but with the diaphragm clutch.
I'm using the larger of the two pressure plates that were used in the 2000 ford explorers with clutch disk and throw out bearing from a 10" Borg and beck three finger setup.
the most important part of the throw-out bearing on your hydraulic is that its face needs to match the pressure plate. if the pressure plate is designed for a flat face throw out it will not last with one that is radiused and vice versa

search inexpensive effective clutch in the forums for details on my build.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:10 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model*: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
"search inexpensive effective clutch in the forums for details on my build."

Thanks for lead.

If Explorer used a hydraulic throwout bearing with the stock explorer diaphram clutch....would that be viable combo.....ie match on throwout bearing surface to PP?

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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 Post subject: PP Retainer Bolt Size
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:17 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model*: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
"I'm using the larger of the two pressure plates that were used in the 2000 ford explorers with clutch disk and throw out bearing from a 10" Borg and beck three finger setup.
the most important part of the throw-out bearing on your hydraulic is that its face needs to match the pressure plate. if the pressure plate is designed for a flat face throw out it will not last with one that is radiused and vice versa "


I purchased both the Ranger/Explorer 9 1/8 PP/Disk and 10 PP. Both have retaining bolt holes around 8.6 mm or just about .340" dia.

Sites list a Ford 10mm (.392") x 1 x 23mm bolt ATP ZX102 for the Ranger/Exporer/etc application but it's unlikely that will drop in a 8.6mm bolt hole in the PP. The Ford PP Bolts for 85 & earlier small block V8 were 5/16-18 and came in a set of 6 in ARP 150-2201 fastener kit.

Maybe the PPs were made with too small a bolt hole (6 total)?
or.....Maybe the sites have it all wrong on the Ford bolt size?
or maybe my measurements are off?

So the question is did you run into this diameter difference and substitute 5/16 bolts and threads? The .3125 bolts would be slightly loose in the PP hole in that case?

Obviously I'm trying to get the correct drilling/tap size for the flywheel determined. Seen a 9 1/8 drilling pattern? I'm measuring 6 equally spaced holes on a 10 1/4" diameter with 5 1/8 straight line distance between adjacent holes.

I've found the stock Ranger/Explorer 9 1/8 disk appears to fit the slant flywheel. Since I just had a B&B disk come apart (rivets pulled out, hub halves separated, springs let loose, and hub cracked thru rivet hole and broke into two pieces......I'm not anxious to use another B&B disk.

I'm going with the Ram 78125HD hydraulic throwout bearing which is flat faced and has a great diameter match to the ford 9 1/8 PP fingers.
The 833 od input bearing retainer collar must be built up from 1.25" to 1.37" to use that unit but Ram good reviews seem to exceed reviews of the McLeod more expensive throwout when it comes to leak potential.
The Ram also uses a guide pin off the retainer which feels more secure than the loosely installed 1400 series McLeod unit.

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:31 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model*: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
Hydraulic Throwout Bearing installed on the 65 Dart 225 with 833 OD & has been tested for several months.
Have an "Overview" with assembly pictures and list of major components used (call it part 1):

http://www.plymouthcarclub.com/2017/12/ ... -retrofit/

Part 2 with details & step by step machining/assembly to follow when the weather socks us in again

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:09 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 170
Location: Florida
Car Model*:
DonPal wrote:
"

I purchased both the Ranger/Explorer 9 1/8 PP/Disk and 10 PP. Both have retaining bolt holes around 8.6 mm or just about .340" dia.

Sites list a Ford 10mm (.392") x 1 x 23mm bolt ATP ZX102 for the Ranger/Exporer/etc application but it's unlikely that will drop in a 8.6mm bolt hole in the PP. The Ford PP Bolts for 85 & earlier small block V8 were 5/16-18 and came in a set of 6 in ARP 150-2201 fastener kit.

Maybe the PPs were made with too small a bolt hole (6 total)?
or.....Maybe the sites have it all wrong on the Ford bolt size?
or maybe my measurements are off?

So the question is did you run into this diameter difference and substitute 5/16 bolts and threads? The .3125 bolts would be slightly loose in the PP hole in that case?

Obviously I'm trying to get the correct drilling/tap size for the flywheel determined. Seen a 9 1/8 drilling pattern? I'm measuring 6 equally spaced holes on a 10 1/4" diameter with 5 1/8 straight line distance between adjacent holes.
.


I think your bolt dim's are correct, why can't we solve the problem by taking an alloy allen bolt and undercutting the head on a lathe to the needed new diameter for say a 1/16"? shoulder? Obviously the deeper the shoulder the better the engagement, but the weaker the fastening strength of the reduced head, ie a tradeoff, but a solution?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:16 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model*: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
Shoulder on bolt would have to be fairly precise on thickness as you pointed out.

Testing is now proceeding with the 5/16 Ford bolt in the slightly oversize PP hole.
When you consider the accuracy in locating the holes it's likely the some of the bolts are up against the PP hole and preventing rotation/whipping of the PP even when ignoring the clamping force?

I located the holes two different ways and confirmed position with one method against another which I will cover in Part 2 of the writeup at http://www.plymouthcarclub.com/2017/12/ ... -retrofit/ on the install. Still I believe it's possible to be off 1/32 on the hole center of one or more bolts.

It would be good to know however what the practice was on the factory new Ford Ranger as far as bolt size versus PP hole size.

There is even the possibility that metrics are used to make the PP holes by some aftermarket company?

Hopefully my ongoing testing doesn't find this hole versus bolt size as an issue effecting reliability.

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:20 am
Posts: 621
Location: St. Louis Park, MN
Car Model*:
If the holes in the pressure plate are larger that the shoulders on the bolts you have to use maybe you could drill some holes through the pressure plate into the flywheel and press in some 1/4" dowels. Balance could be an issue if the pressure plate isn't concentric on the flywheel.

_________________
If you didn't drive it there, it's not a street car.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:17 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 170
Location: Florida
Car Model*:
The dowels are an interesting solution, and relatively easy for a one time solution, in that a replacement PP would require an identical match for dowel placement, and if one is going to all that trouble, might as well fix it right from the start.


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