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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:34 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber

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3 pin connector


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:57 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Location: Dallas Texas
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That's the one you want with the 3 pin connector.

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1976 Feather Duster /6 4sp
1984 W100 318 727 np241
1972 'Cuda 340 4sp
1985 D250 360 46RH


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:30 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 12295
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model*: 82 Ramcharger, 76 D100
Those pictures are great! Thank you! I found an 89 Dakota with a V6 and an overdrive button on the dash in the same yard, so I am pretty sure it will have an A500. I will use your pictures to confirm before I spend another day on my back pulling a transmission.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:23 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:29 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Seattle, WA
Car Model*: 75 Dart SE (2),75 Swinger, 74 Dart Sport,91 Ram RV
Hey Reed, guess what I got? An 89 Dakota with an A500 O.D. behind a V-6 parked in my driveway. It will be going into the blue '75 Swinger using a factory adapter. That is my project #2 further down the road. As Charlie said, keep the thread going, 'cuz you have an audience! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:25 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 12295
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model*: 82 Ramcharger, 76 D100
OK, I will try and keep somewhat regular updates coming. I have pretty much used up all my spare time by taking an extra day off work so I will have to sneak little updates when I am able.

Good news today. The 89 Dakota did indeed have an A500. I spent about 2 1/2 hours at the junkyard pulling it. I have made a pretty good haul at the junkyard in the last two days. The v-8 radiator out of the 90 D150 with built in auxialiary trans cooler, the D150 large diameter trans cooler lines, the mini starter out of the D150, the dual V-belt Nippondenso alternator out of the 90 D150, the trans mount and cros brace out of the D150, the mini starter motor out of the Dakota, the A500 out of the Dakota, the rear trans brace out of the Dakota, the "OD" dash switch out of the Dakota, and all of the hardware for the above parts. With the $130 the guy paid me to help him yesterday, and with the 50% off sale going on at the junkyard, this haul cost me a grand total of $66. Not too shabby. I left the Denso alternator on the Dakota. I didn't want to be too greedy.

For now the parts are being stored in my truck bed until I get a chance to take them to a coin-op car wash and clean them off.

Intersting things I discovered:

(1) the A500 is HEAVY. I mean really freaking HEAVY. I am used to picking up 904s, 727s, even 8 3/4 rear axles, and yes, those are heavy, too. But this A500 is heavier by far. You will not save any weight switching to an A500. I almost got a hernia picking it up to load it into my truck.

(2) the torque converter in the A500 had a "HS LOCK UP" sticker on the converter. The Dakota was a V-6 model, so maybe those came factory with a high stall converter?

(3) the trans cross member for the Dakota is VERY different from the D150. If you are installing this in a D150 you will want to grab the trans brace from a late model D150.

(4) the actual rubber mount looks the same between the A500 and the late 904. I grabbed all the trans mount stuff off the 90 D150, even the rubber mount. I will make a better comparison between them after I have cleaned everything up.

(5) I have read that the A500 had larger cooling lines, but the 90 D150 with the 904 had larger lines than the 89 A500. I need to double check that with a micrometer, but I think the 90 904 had larger cooling lines.

(6) if you are going to pull the trans yourself, an offset 9/16 wrench is an absolute necessity. The v-6 oil pan is MUCH closer to the trans than the slant or 318 oil pans.

(7) when the time comes to install it, a transmisson jack is a must. You dn't want to try and lift one of these up by yourself. And use a jack with secure straps. You don't want one of these falling on you.

Thats it for now. Time to let my back recover. Pictures and more discussion to follow.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:27 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Dallas Texas
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I have the $90 scissor transmission jack from harbour freight that I used to remove a np435 with transfer case attached then replaced a 727 with t-case. It worked great. It seamed stable and safe.

_________________
1976 Feather Duster /6 4sp
1984 W100 318 727 np241
1972 'Cuda 340 4sp
1985 D250 360 46RH


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:29 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6088
Location: So California
Car Model*: 64 Plymouth Valiant
I use a motorcycle lift for trannies...…..

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64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:40 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 12295
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model*: 82 Ramcharger, 76 D100
I have the Harbor Freight trans jack, too. I have used it on many instsalls and removals. One of the best purchases I have made. You can also get replacement heads for a regular floor jack that are designed to lift transmissions. You will need some sort of lifting aid with an A500. One thing nice about the Harbor Freight jack is that it has wheels.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:09 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 12295
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model*: 82 Ramcharger, 76 D100
Did a bit of internet research before clocking into work this morning, This is all from a thread on FABO relating to A500 swaps:

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/th ... ss.404951/

"Be reading a lot of post here on FABO. Some say to replace the early style 22.5 degree overdrive planetary setup gears with the later model (1994) 15 degree gear sets."

"I can find info about the 727's parasitic loss (about 45HP). I can find info about the 904's parasitic loss (about 25HP)
But I can not seem to find any info about the parasitic loss of the A500 and the A518 overdrive transmissions."

The consensus reached was that the parasitic loss numbers of the A500 and A518 would be pretty much identical to those of the 904 and 727 since tghe 500/518 transmissions operate ientically to the 904/727s save for the overdrive planetery gearset spinning around the output shaft in the overdrive tailhousing.

Do those numbers sound right? A 727 uses 45 HP to turn? No wonder my 76 D100 accelerates like a slug. When I went to a clutch fan I thought the truck picked up some acceleration in addition to getting quieter, but then I thought I was imagining things. Maybe I wasn't since with a transmission that effectively uses half of the engine's power output gaining even small amounts of horsepower is a noticeable improvement. This is yet another reason to make this trans swap happen sooner.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Board Sponsor

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Quote:
Do those numbers sound right? A 727 uses 45 HP to turn?


May be at some RPM, speed, and at some HP level it would use 45 HP. I certainly have my doubts at 55 or 60 MPH and 2500 RPM. But then what do I know. :D :D

I'm sure someone has done a back to back rear wheel horsepower test with no changes to the engine, and going from a 727 to a 904. That would tell you for sure what was up!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 12295
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model*: 82 Ramcharger, 76 D100
Rick Covalt wrote:
I'm sure someone has done a back to back rear wheel horsepower test with no changes to the engine, and going from a 727 to a 904. That would tell you for sure what was up!


I would love to see the results of such a test, but have never found them.

OK, here are some pictures. First, for people who are looking for an A500, here are the two areas to look at to make sure yo get an A500 and not a A904.

Image

Image

THe first picture shows the 3 pin plug on the "flat" next to the neutral safety switch. If that plug isn't there, it is a 904.

The second picture shows the top of the overdrive housing. The first thing to note is the New Process Gear logo embossed on the housing. That would be hard to see if the trans is still installed, so something you can feel for is the access plate on the top of the housing that gives access to the snap ring.

The next picture is some of the peripherals to the transmission, specifically the inspection plates and the starter motors:

Image

Can you tell which inspection plate come off the 904 and which came of the A500? No? That's not surprising since they have the same part number.

Now, can you tell which "ministarter" came off the 318 and which came of the V-6? The smaller one is off the v-6. To paraphrase George Orwell, "Some mini starters are more mini than others."

Cleaning the parts is all I got done today. Now I really have to get back to being a lawyer, so it my be a bit before any meaningful updtae is posted. I did obtain a copy of the ATSG rebuild manual for the A500 and it is very helpful. Apparently, in stock form the A500 overdrive unit is capable of handling 400 foot pounds of toque. I think that means it will survive behind pretty much any slant six out there.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Location: Blacksburg, VA
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Good score, Reed. Looks like you got the right one with the manual KD lever and only 3 pins for lockup and OD.

Lou

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 12295
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model*: 82 Ramcharger, 76 D100
Dart270 wrote:
Good score, Reed. Looks like you got the right one with the manual KD lever and only 3 pins for lockup and OD.

Lou


I'm pretty happy about it. It was a bit of a struggle to get it, though. The Pick-N-Pull yard I go to always stacks cars on sets of rims welded together. When they stacked this Dakota the put the rim under the exhaust line and this prevented the engine/trans assembly form tipping back when the rear trans brace was removed. You can kind of see it in this picture I took before I removed the Dakots rear trans brace:

Image

I had to get creative and figure out a way to lift the Dakota enough to reposition the rim-stand to let the engine and trans tilt. THen I had to heft it over the exhaust pipe. Mission accomplished! Space is much tighter in the Dakota than in the D150.

Now I get to tear it down, weld up the hole the yard punched in the trans pan, and see what, if anything, needs to be rebuilt in the guts of the trans.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:35 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:29 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Seattle, WA
Car Model*: 75 Dart SE (2),75 Swinger, 74 Dart Sport,91 Ram RV
Thanks Reed.

_________________
"Louise", a 1976 Dart Custom project, (now sadly reverted to being just an "organ donor" to our other project Darts.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:57 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 12295
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model*: 82 Ramcharger, 76 D100
Louise76 wrote:
Thanks Reed.


No problem.

Another discovery- I verified that the 1990 D150 904 trans does have larger cooler lines than did the A500. Makes me wish I had ghrabbed the fittings from the 904 at the junkyard. :x I have the larger cooler lines and the auxilliary trans cooler off the D150, I just need the adapters that screw into the case of the trans for the cooler lines. I am sure I can find some in the aftermarket.

I had heard that A500s all had larger cooler lines but apparently not.

Also, I was reading the ATSG rebuild manual and the A500 is based on the last iteration of the A999, so it should have a four planetary gearset and more clutch plates than the usual slant 904. Good news. That means in stock form an A500 should handle most slants but it can also be easily upgraded for stronger motors.


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