Has anyone out there DI'd a slant yet??

I know this would require substantial head mods similar to the thread where A gentleman put the fuel injector directly in the head casting through the water jacket.




Also the pintle type direct injectors are expensive and you have to run hundreds of #'s fuel pressure.



GM is able to get some amazing #'s out of the Ecotec L4 with direct injection and a large bag of other tricks.......

Just thinking out loud, and sharing.


I think it would be an interesting project to follow along.



Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

I still think the most feasible swap is a MAF sequential fuel injection system adapted from a Ford 300. The only machine work is on the intake manifold and devising a way to simulate the Hall sensor that Ford sticks under the distributor cap and uses as a #1 reference for the computer. The rest of it is nearly plug and play.

I plan on doing the swap to Ford MAF on my brother's Duster.

Reed, If you don't document that when you do it, we know where you live.

Sam

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Already seen something similar to this, local AMC guy did it on a 258...machined the other 5 spikes off the reluctor so it only has one spike...use an ESC distributor with the solid shaft...synch position with cam...now you have a cam sensor...

LOL,

-D.Idiot

Don't worry Sam, I plan a full writeup on this when it happens. I will have an engine and transmission out of a vehicle and on a stand for the fabrication and testing process. I will detail the installation when it goes into the Duster, including pictures wiring diagrams, and measurements when necessary.

I got familiar with the Ford injection system earlier this year when I swapped a carbureted 351 motor into my 89 Ford van that was a speed density injected 302. I had to get a bit in depth into the differences between Ford speed-density systems and their MAF systems, and what all is necessary to convert a carbed motor to a fuel injected motor, but it isn't that bad.

The Ford 300 came with MAF injection in 96 or 95-96 only, however, all you need is the right computer, some extra wiring to change the injectors from batch fired to sequential, and the right MAF sensor to make it work. The rest of the wiring can be grabbed from any fuel injected 90-up Ford 300. The computer and MAF sensor can be ordered from the parts store.

The 300 firing order is the same as the slant (1-5-3-6-2-4) which minimizes wiring and computer issues. Fabrication of a fuel rail, high pressure fuel system with fuel return, machining of the manifold, and plumbing of the MAF and throttle body is easy to do on a slant powered car. The hardest part, like I said, is adapting or mimicking the Hall sensor output from the sensor in the distributor. The computer senses when #1 is firing from this sensor and times the injector pulses accordingly. Add a factory slant six exhaust manifold with the O2 sensor and a lean burn distributor and you are set. I am also fairly certain it is possible to mount the requisite low-pressure fuel pump on the stock A-body fuel pickup in the gas tank. I have also read where it is possible to have the fuel injection computer control an electric radiator fan based on engine temp. Another bonus.

One of the best things about the Ford system is that there is an aftermarket item, called a TWEECER, that lets you tap into the Ford fuel injection computer and modify the parameters. That means both the timing and injection will be user controllable. However, since the system if MAF, the computer "learns" the displacement and cam profile of the motor and adjusts accordingly.

MAF, sequential injection, and ability to hack the spark and fuel maps makes this the best possible injection retrofit in my opinion. Plus, the parts are readily available and fairly cheap. The 300 even uses the same injectors as the 302 and 351.

DI- I have seen other people mount 32 tooth Hall sensors and wheels to the cranks of slant sixes, and that is the route I am thinking of going. I am thinking of machining a disc to bolt to the front of the crank pulley stack and mounting the sensor and trigger wheel from the Ford distributor to the disc. The pickup would need a mount fabricated, but the mount could attach to some of the timing chain cover bolts.


I am still months away from starting this project, but I have been thinking about it for over a year, and I think I have penciled it out to be very feasible. If this works, I think it will be very possible to have a MAF sequential fuel injection system for the slant six (in any configuration) for under $1500, probably for under $750 if all junkyard parts are used.

Hi Greg.
You may be able to buy the parts you need over the counter at your local Fipar dealer next year.

Some of you are certainly disgusted by it, and I am not thrilled by the Mopar/Fiat deal myself, but I have been looking at what Fiat has achieved on the technical side, and some of it is very impressive.

You can see this link to the tiny Fiat 500, with 170 hp 1.4 litre direct injection, variable pitch turbocharged engine.
(tiny but sexy - 'cute power', this car is definitely one of the biggest chick-magnets EVER in Europe!)

And here a quote from this link from 2009, the info on fuel pressure is interesting:



One of the things I would have liked to know, is the dynamic compression in this engine:



If there is a future when this technology will merge with Mopar's own technology in Mopar high performance cars; that will be spectacular!

Here is a link to a Hot Rod article on direct injection. I for one will follow the development with the intention of adapting parts of this technology to give our old engines new life. Prices will drop fast and enable us to experiment without winning the lottery first. An aluminum SL6 head with provisison for direct injection would be interesting, but AFTER the lottery money is on the table.

Olaf.

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Aspenized

Reed, interesting reading! Is it possible to fit the Hall sensor you describe at a more protected site under the bellhousing instead, or are there other systems more suitable for that? If you could take advantage of the larger diameter of a flywheel or converter, the precision of the system would also increase.

Olaf.

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Aspenized

I have no idea. At this point, I barely know what a Hall sensor is, much less how to optimally configure them. I am trying to design a system that is a simple and cheap as possible to install. I think that a simple shield to protect the sensor could be fabricated if mounting it on the crank pulley posed too much danger.

If I get this fuel injection system sorted out, I might consider tracking down a Hyper-Pak intake and some dual Dutra Duals. No more fuel distribution problems and no more need for manifold heat! Nothing but cold rammed air.

Reed you talked about a need for a LOW pressure fuel pump in the gas tank. Did you mean high pressure?

One of the pick up sensor types uses a light that shines through a small slit in the wheel. Is this the Hall Effect sensor? If so I can see how dirt might adversely affect the function of it.

ONe of my own conclusions after failing to get my ECu and ignition to talk to each other is that perhaps the hardest aspect of this to get a handle on is the shape of the wave form being generated and read by the ignition sensors and the ECU. There are square waves, and sine waves, and rising and falling read points, and if you don;t have this configured right, it will not work. And I think this is where my system failed. I haven't given up, but I am leaving this end of things to the pros at DIY.

My point is, I think it is important to use EXACTLY the same set up as the system you are copying. If they used a certain pick up, then you are best to duplicate the precisely.

I really like the idea of using the Ford ECU, and their ignition type, and their wiring diagram. MEgasquirt is nice, but by now, with at least two distinct firmware development paths, and several tuning programs available, and multiple iterations of PC boards and two different processors, it is geek territory for sure. And when you change ignition styles with Megasquirt there are internal changes to the PC board that must be made.

When someone says just read the Megamanual I have to laugh, since there are at least 8 of them now. And most sections of them discuss various versions and you must sort out which version you have and what you are reading about. So, with the Ford system, you know it is compatible, tested, and works.

My brother has agreed to purchase a 2005 Mustang convertible with a V-6. I am planning on studying that ignition system carefully with an eye and mind to duplicating it on my slant eventually.

If I ever get the MS II working, that might become a mute point, but for now, my mind is open. Keep talking guys, this is interesting.

I really enjoyed the Fiat stuff too. Thanks Olaf.

Sam

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No, I meant low pressure. The Ford system uses two pumps- a low pressure in-tank fuel pump and a high pressure fuel pump mounted on the frame rail (my 89 Ford van actually has three fuel pumps since it has dual gas tanks). I have read about guys converting old Ford vehicles such as Mustangs and Broncos to the MAF system and using only a high pressure pump, but I have also read about people who did the conversion and used both the low and high pressure pumps. Personally, I would use the low pressure pump and a high pressure just because that is how the factory designed the system.

I don't believe the sensor in the distributor uses light to trigger the signal, such as a Pertronix ignition system does. I need to really dig into the Ford technical materials before I can give an intelligent answer to this, and I just haven't had time to do it. I do know that there is a wheel tucker under the distributor rotor that has seven identical tabs on it and one shorter tab (on an 8 cylinder distributor, I assume a 300 distributor would have five and one) and the smaller tab is for cylinder #1. The difference in the signal caused by the #1 tab being smaller is what tells the computer where the cam is at and which injector to fire.

I need to get some other more immediate problems sorted out on my vans and my brother's van before I can really dig into this fuel injection project, but I will post pictures and ask questions of more knowledgeable folks as I get into this.

What I really need are the Ford parts books for 1995 and 1996. There is little information on the net about the Ford 300 getting MAF> I have heard conflicting reports- (1) only the 1995 California emissions package 300s got MAF; (2) 95 CA Emissions and 96 all 300s got MAF; and (3) only 96 300s got MAF, but it was OBD II.

If anyone has the 1995 and 1996 Ford parts manuals and would be willing to donate them to this project or sell them to me cheap, I'd be interested. I need to get the computer program code for the 300 MAF computer, and determine if the system was OBD-1 or OBD-2 (help me OBD, you're my only hope).

Reed is the 300 you speak of a van ??

-Mike

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I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

The Hall sensors read changes in a magnetic field, and are relatively unsensitive to the surrounding environment, fuel and oil, but may be very sensitive to static discharge and magnetic fields caused by other electrical componenets. Some are actually small enough to be placed inside ball bearings! The reason for my question is that In general I think the less parts with wires on the outside of an engine, the better!

Olaf.

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Aspenized

The 300 was used in full sized trucks and vans. F150, F250s, F350s, E150s, E250s, E350s, Broncos, etc... It was the primary six cylinder truck motor for Ford from the 60s through 1996.

I was under the impression that OBD II started in '97.
Sam

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