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Would you be interested in a EFI Manifold With Fuel Rail For $600?
Yes 37%  37%  [ 11 ]
No 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Maybe 47%  47%  [ 14 ]
Total votes: 30
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:53 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:18 am
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee
Car Model*: 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
Greetings all,

I've been a long time reader, but a first time poster so I apologize if this is the wrong section to post in.

I've been working on my 1973 Dart Swinger's slant six intake and figured you guys might like seeing some pictures.

This is the first prototype manifold, but we have already made revisions and adjustments (injector angle, some internal smoothing, strength for forced induction applications, etc) for a final manifold that our machine shop is capable of producing.

Everything is designed to fit up with factory equipment such as A/C, Exhaust manifold, and will use the factory mounting hardware. The throttle body is based of a jeep 4.0L and the injectors and fuel rail are based on bosch EV1 style injectors. I'll be running a megasquirt with ford edis.

As for now this is what we have completed on the prototype. Everything should be up and running by April 15th (Pigeon Forge Rod Run TN Weekend.)



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7126
Location: SW Washington
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That would be a fair price for a well designed manifold, but the prototype has problems that eliminate it from consideration.

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Joshua Skinner, formerly SrA US Air Force


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:37 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:18 am
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee
Car Model*: 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
The prototype type is just for a rough draft right now and a little show & tell fun (while the machine shop sets up with tool paths etc), but we intend to have a much smoother intake in the final draft.

If you don't mind voicing your ideas I'd love to hear them!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:16 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: SW Washington
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The throttle body should not directly face any intake runners or unequal air distribution will result.
For many people converting to EFI a throttle body on the end of the manifold is desirable. Otherwise I would put the throttle body on the top.
The prototype runners are quite short and are probably necessarily so for a side-mount throttle body.
I would suggest you look at European and Japanese I6 engines for design ideas. The naturally aspirated Toyota 2JZ-GE intake manifold has a sophisticated long runner manifold. The sheet metal manifold I designed took advantage of the same tuning methods, but used 2 throttle bodies rather than the Y-branch.

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Joshua Skinner, formerly SrA US Air Force


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:56 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:18 am
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee
Car Model*: 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
We went with the shorter runner length for fitment & simplicity of installation. Our goal with this manifold is an ease of installation on factory setups. The reason for the single throttle body and side mount is also for ease of installation.
The air distribution should be on par with the original, but with the added benefits of fuel injection, lighter weight, and forced induction capabilities.

We a have more race minded application using the same wrap over tuned style runners as a BMW, but this one was more practical for now.

The price is estimated, we will have full pricing after our first official unit.

Thanks for the input.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:14 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: SW Washington
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Lowering the plenum and moving the throttle body to the top of the plenum would not make installation difficult and would aid in even air distribution. It would also allow longer runners. You can put a Hyper-Pak length manifold in just about anything other than an A100.

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Joshua Skinner, formerly SrA US Air Force


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:25 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Fircrest, WA
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Joshie225 wrote:
Lowering the plenum and moving the throttle body to the top of the plenum would not make installation difficult and would aid in even air distribution. It would also allow longer runners. You can put a Hyper-Pak length manifold in just about anything other than an A100.


Not to nitpick, but any Dodge van with a slant can't have a long-runnign intake. THe later B series vans with slant sixes had offset air cleaner housings to vlear the engine cover with stock manifolds. A hyperpak length intake in a B series van would put the carb about under the driver's knees.

I think a kit of parts to convert a slant to EFI is a good idea, but I think the intake will be a harder sell. Clifford intakes already have injector bosses on the that can be drilled and tapped. An adapter plate can be put on theClifford intake to run a throttle body. Intakes are easy. In my mind it is the fuel rail and other FI components that are tricky.

I would be interested in seeing how you managed the Ford EDIS conversion.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:12 pm 
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Board Sponsor
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That manifold would fit a '65 Dart engine compart. Any longer runners would put the plenum into the battery or brake cylinder. A front mounted throttle body may interfer with the raditor fan. It is pretty close to one I was considering, the only problem that I see is the runners should be bellmouthed where they attach to the plenum.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:22 am 
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Welcome!

I also think the TB should be on the front, maybe angled 30-45 deg away from the engine axis. Just angle cut the main pipe and weld on a flat flange and/or a short pipe with flange?

With the main plenum pipe hanging below the runners, you will run into quite a few of the headers, stock exh manifolds, and likely Dutra Dual manifolds. Centering that pipe top to bottom would help that.

I would also made the runners a bit longer, but I don't think it's a big deal. I would use something like that on my turbo Slant.

Best would be to send it to some Slant nerd(s) like me with different headers and manifolds to mock up once you have a prototype made. I did some test fitting with a bunch of int manifolds and accessories with hpak exh manifolds several months ago:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16910097@ ... 8525957101

I have two EFI-ed 225 Darts, one TBI (since 1998) and one MP-EFI (since 2003).

Looks like a fun project, and could have demand if it can have wide application and especially with some real world testing.

Looking forward to hearing/seeing more!

Lou

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"You mean you still have a Slant 6 in that thing?"


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:47 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:18 am
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee
Car Model*: 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
Just took some new photos today after welding up injector bungs (90 degree angle for the prototype), end caps, and throttle body mount.

The plenum sits on top of coped runners to create a funneled venturi effect and to give clearance for the factory exhaust manifold.

We plan on doing a run of 10 and might be interested in allowing for some short term trial tests, so we could see performance and fit across various applications.

Pardon the messy shop and the rusty slant mock up engine.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:04 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: SW Washington
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Is there room to extend the plenum so that it extends past the end runners by 1/2 the width of the runner?

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Joshua Skinner, formerly SrA US Air Force


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:49 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:18 am
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee
Car Model*: 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
Yes, 1/2 the width of the runners could be added to the end making an extremely tight fit with the a/c bracket. The intake currently has about 1/2" of plenum on either end that extends past the last runners.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:51 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 5914
Location: So California
Car Model*: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Are you going to bellmouth the runners where they go into the plenum?

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:33 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:18 am
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee
Car Model*: 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
Due to the cost of "bell mouthing" we are shying away from it. The cope and radiused edge of the runners should provide a "Bell mouthed" effect. The opening of the runner mouth into the plenum is roughly the suggested 1.5 times the size of the intake port (measured on our head) to provide a maximum venturi effect.

P.S. Pardon the hideous engine bay I've done almost no clean up work on the car yet (this is my dart).

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:58 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Location: Brightwood, VA
Car Model*: 1965 Plymouth Belvedere I
Have you had an engine running with this intake?
Just wondering how well it does.

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-Matt
http://www.MattmansMopars.com
Strive for Excellence, not Perfection.


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