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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:57 am 
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Since I am planning a 500 HP engine, I would be up for a set.

Cheers,
Lou

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Supercharged

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Quote:
I'll hop in.


Dennis,, I thought that you had something going at one time that would allow a larger
diameter bolt / stud to be used. Some kind of an insert..
Am I wrong on that or did it prove non feasible?


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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Turbo EFI

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I've found 2 different length 1/2" studs that will work for the slant, one for blocks and heads that are cut to the max and one for normal milled blocks and heads. Drilling to put inserts in is taking too much material out of the bolt boss area and completely unnecessary. Drilling the block and tapping with a 1/2" roll form tap is the correct way to go. I am currently doing many LS blocks for guys using over 30 pounds of boost and are making over 1300 HP in the drag radial series and am doing virtually the same thing with them going from a 12MM bolt to 1/2". I did a slant block last fall for a guy and have another one to do later this month.

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:53 pm 
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I have not gone any further with the insert project. I saw the block Patrick did and his (318) turned out very nicely.

I don't really need the good studs, I am just trying to help with a group buy. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:23 pm 
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Quote:
I've found 2 different length 1/2" studs that will work for the slant


If they are available in the ARP 2000 material then that would save these folks an expensive group buy. What are the part numbers if you have them handy! Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Turbo EFI

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Rick, they are not ARP brand, but being 180,000 psi and 1/2", they are still superior and have more clamping force than the ARP 2000 7/16" studs for the Slant by nearly 20%.

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:04 pm 
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My Bad, I thought you found a drop in that would work. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:34 pm 
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Turbo EFI

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I did, just not ARP, but also 1/2" for an ever better upgrade.

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:09 am 
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Martin Ramos at ARP, got back to me after he looked up the previous run.
At that time, the company had enough forgings on hand to produce the quantity necessary for the group purchase. At this time, ARP is out of stock and no word on when more will be ordered.

If the 1/2 “ stud is a viable alternative, there’s no reason to pursue this direction.

Are we certain that the block won’t be compromised when increasing the stud diameter to 1/2 “ ?

CNC Dude, are you using a fixture to index the holes while tapping ? Will you outline the process and source for the roll tap?

What do you charge for the operation?


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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:03 pm 
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Turbo EFI

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Its a pretty straight forward process if you have the equipment. I have two milling machines and a new lathe in my shop, but here's a step by step procedure for those that have access to or have their own equipment. I turn the block up on its deck surface onto a pallet and run a file across the pan rail on both sides to remove any burrs so it will sit flat on the milling table. I raise it onto the mill with a cherry picker and center it on the table side to side and front to rear. I then have a machined bar that I fit thru the main housing bores and put t-nuts into the table to bolt it down so it wont move.

I have a keyless chuck for my mill for this type of job because its faster when having to use multiple tools repeatedly. I then have a precision gage pin set I use to find which one fits each bolt hole the tightest. Then, with it in the chuck, I can center on each bolt hole as close to OEM as possible. But, most bolt locations in all blocks have a pretty lax plus/minus tolerance. And since you are simply following an existing hole, it'll be hard to move off of it very much to cause any problems if you don't get it perfect.

So once i'm centered on the hole, I lock my table down so it wont move and then install the correct drill size for the form tap. The stock bolt hole depth usually needs to be drilled a little deeper to make sure you drill thru the existing factory threads. Since the holes are blind, going an extra .050" or .060" deeper wont hurt anything. Blow out chips, insert form tap, apply a light coating of lube and mark the depth on the tap so you don't go too deep and jog the on/off switch to power tap as you pull the handle down with light pressure. Once you are close to the mark you made, jog the on/off switch in reverse to back the tap out of the hole. Move to next hole and repeat again. Once you are finished, you may want to go back and hand tap the rest of the way down in the holes to make sure you went deep enough.

If you don't have a milling machine, I have seen a lot of guys use mag drills also. And since you are simply following existing holes, this isn't a precision process by any means, so don't get wrapped around the axle thinking you are making a part for the space shuttle or anything.

Also, don't forget that you have to drill the head bolt holes in the head larger as well. I use a .515" drill bit to allow the extra clearance to easily install the head, but you can also go a little larger if you'd like. Don't forget to chamfer the block and both sides of the cylinder head bolt holes to remove burrs. The head gasket may also need the holes enlarged a little also. so lay all the pieces out before you get started so you'll know what lies ahead before you get too deeply involved.

MSC and McMaster-Carr will have the roll form taps and so will any local machine tool outlet, don't forget the correct drill either. A roll form tap uses a different size drill bit than a cutting tap does. They do make different form taps also, one for aluminum and one for steel and ferrous metals, so naturally you'd get the one for the type of block you are machining. Its always best to do this to the block and head before they are final machined so you can clean the chips out real good. I charge the LS guys $200 for just the block, the heads are extra. An inline block is cheaper because you don't have to flip it to do multiple sides. I'd probably do another inline 6 block for $125 and about $25 for the head.

Hope this helps!

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:44 am 
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Thank you for the step by step, well written article.

It appears that with the original pricing, the cost would be similar.

If there’s sufficient metal in all the areas adjacent to the threaded
holes, the increased size may be a better way to go in terms of overall strength and rigidity.

The only other aspect would be convenience and simplicity of using an modified block.

I will check back periodically with ARP to see when they anticipate another shipment of forgings to allow
for a more reasonable run of the studs using the 2000 material, let me know if there’s any interest?

Oz


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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:22 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
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I always thought bolts/studs were basically cut from thousand ft+ coils of wire, and then formed into final shape.

I don't mean to, minimize a process I don't fully understand, but it seems to me, it more of a financial decision on their part then anything, and since they are running a business...........


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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:23 pm 
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Turbo EFI

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Its still supply and demand, and if a business kept investing in tiny niche markets like the Slant 6 market hoping and crossing their fingers the phone will ring to recoup investments, they'd go broke! Not just ARP, but all businesses only make and stock products for sure things, like the larger more predictable markets like the V8 Chevy, Ford and Chrysler groups. Its just common sense. I know everyone here thinks the Slant 6 market is big enough to no longer be considered a niche, but the lack of many products that are enjoyed by so many other engine groups says a lot. But its not just the Slant 6, its most inline engine groups in general that are having to do take a backseat or do without all together.

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 Post subject: Re: ARP 2000 head studs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:27 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:23 am
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ozcheek wrote:

If there’s sufficient metal in all the areas adjacent to the threaded
holes, the increased size may be a better way to go in terms of overall strength and rigidity.

Yes, the Slant block is very thickly cast in the deck and cylinder barrels where the bolt bosses are located, and can easily accommodate this modification. This has been done for many years by many people without issues.

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