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| Alcohol in a turbo motor https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=59718 |
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| Author: | billdedman [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alcohol in a turbo motor |
I am wondering what difference in output I might be able to gain if I switched my fuel to 100% alcohol in my 225 turbo drag race motor. It is never driven on the street, so I am only interested in its flywheel output. I know that supercharged alcohol dragsters in NHRA racing can run significantly faster than their gasoline-powered counterparts, so it made me wonder if I could benefit from a switch to alcohol fuel as well. Is there a percentage number that might be accurate as regards the horsepower increase? I currently run an unleaded racing gasoline manufactured by V-P. My fuel cell is plastic? (or fiberglass; I am not sure.....) My lines are all aluminum, my regulator is an Aeromotive, with "push-on" hoses from the regulator to the carburetor. The fuel pump is a Walbro 392 GSL. I am thinking that all of my fuel system would be OK with alcohol, except the carb, which would have to be replaced with one modified for alcohol. Any information will be appreciated. TIA.... Bill |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would start reading here: http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel.html |
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| Author: | billdedman [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks, Josh; lots of good information there! But, I didn't see the answer to my question of, how much of a horsepower increase (ball-park) will I get (percentagewise) from switching my 20-something pound-boosted turbo motor (225) from racing gas to alcohol. Bill |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Are you wanting to run Ethanol or Methanol? Methanol will attack your aluminum fuel lines and possibly the sealing materials in the pump and regulator. You will have to flush the fuel system after every race if you don't upgrade everything in the fuel delivery system with corrosion resistant materials. Even then you can't leave any fuel in the engine or it will corrode the pistons. With the same boost and timing you're likely to see 10-15% more power. http://topspeedparts.com/Fuel-Comparison_ep_53-1.html Ethanol is less corrosive, less toxic to you, but doesn't get the same power improvement. Used as E85 it's easier to obtain and has corrosion inhibitors. Probably a 6-10% power increase over gasoline. On the low side of that compared to race gas. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013/01 ... ing-fuels/ |
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| Author: | jcc [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
From Wiki Methanol: Methanol is toxic by two mechanisms. First, methanol (whether it enters the body by ingestion, inhalation, or absorption through the skin) can be fatal due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol poisoning. Second, in a process of toxication, it is metabolized to formic acid (which is present as the formate ion) via formaldehyde in a process initiated by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.[20 http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/339/sep30_1/b3929 And isn't the real benefit usually found in alcohol when combined with increased CR and/or boost? |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Alcohol will also cool the mixture.... |
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| Author: | billdedman [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks to everyone who replied I am not very enamored of the minimal benefits enumerated in these posts... in my ignorance I was hoping for more significant gains.... something more on the order of 20%. Looks like that's not gonna happen, so, I think I'll stick with racing gas for the immediate future. More money, but less hassle. I REALLY appreciate the information and comments! This board is wonderful.... Bill |
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| Author: | Dorian [ Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:55 pm ] |
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normally aspirated engines quite regularly see 1/2 second increase in ET going to alcohol. My 67 barracuda has a stock 5.7 hemi, with an enderle injector. I put in a Hughes .590 lift cam and matching lifters as well as better valve springs. My car ran 10.71 in the 1/4! You can see the post in forabodiesonly under new hemis... 5.7 with hilborn injection. I was given the injector from my brother in law so went with that instead of the stack injection. Very happy with the alcohol |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:44 am ] |
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Just so you don't have to search like I did... http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/thr ... on.233673/ |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bill, Another option or add-on is methanol/water injection, which cools the charge, although not as much as with full methanol. I have an AEM inj system on my 68 Dart ($400). Basically, it should allow you to run more boost with the same fuel. How much, I don't know. I can tell you I am making 350+ crank HP on 11-12 psi totally street driven to track and back (sometimes 2800 miles one way). I have run 14-15 psi for short periods with no failures, and am working up to that as a standard running condition at 400+ HP. This engine has an almost stock cam (old MP 244), 8.6:1 comp, and 180k miles on the shortblock. I have often taken to just buying -20F windshield washer fluid and dumping that in. It is somewhere around 30% methanol. -40F WW fluid is around 50% methanol. No problems yet. If I go to a track, I can also buy pure methanol and then mix it with distilled water 50/50. The amount of trouble involved in methanol as a fuel will mean I'll probably never run it. Lou |
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| Author: | Dorian [ Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:20 pm ] |
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thanks Joshie225 |
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| Author: | Killer6 [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:25 am ] |
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What percentage of your fuel supply systems capability are you using now? The demand will be at least 40% higher, and that's optimistic,and that's for methanol. True benefits in inlet system/head cooling are there,but I'm w/ Lou, use a separate injection system. |
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