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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:21 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Hello resident experts. I'm building another car, a 66 Belvedere. Right now it's a very clean original 1 bbl survivor car but I plan on turbocharging it. It won't be for a while but I wanted to know what preliminary work would be ok to do. I was going to put on a super six but I don't think I'll be happy with it. If I'm going to do some performance upgrades I want a big bang for my buck and I hate doing things twice.

I'd like to put a 4 bbl offenhauser manifold setup and a set of Dutra duals on it. I'd like to be able to run the Dutra duals with the turbo setup. I read somewhere about possibly doing twin turbos, a small one to help with down low off the line and a larger one for up higher in the rpm band.

I'd also be ok with being able to tie the two exhaust pipes together so I'd be able to use the Dutras. I must admit that I'm very interested in the twin turbo idea but smarter people than I would have to figure out if that were possible.

So, in the mean time, while I'm waiting to do the turbo work I want to do the intake and exhaust work. Unlike with the super six setup, the 4bbl might be overkill for a motor with nothing else done to it so in the spirit of moving things along I was wondering if some head work, sans milling, larger valves and an upgraded turbo compatible cam, would be worthwhile to do now even though I'm not doing the turbo work yet.

Is there a turbo cam worth putting in, along with head work that'll make a dramatic increase in performance without the turbo being done yet?

Is it necessary to upgrade the cam and do head work to get great performance out of boost? I know there are guys that are just boosting the motor and doing nothing else. Please shed some light on this for me if you have experience with boost. Thank you in advance

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan
1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:31 pm 
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I am running the smallest MP cam, which is almost identical to a 71-up stock 225 cam. I am making nearly 400 HP on 14 psi. I decided not to mess with boost without EFI, so I have a homebrew multi-port driven by a megasquirt I (circa 2003) ECU. Do not put a big cam in a turbo motor or you will shift the RPM range up too high for the 225 to handle (rev wise).

I have Dutra duals tied together into a common T4 flange with a turbonetics t60-1 turbo. Paid a welder friend to weld stainless pipes and merge into the T4 flange and he added an external wastegate port.

How much HP do you want to make and what do you want/have to spend?

Lou

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:46 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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That sounds awesome. Somewhere between 300 and 350 would be great. How aggressive a sound can I get out of a turbo cam. What are your cam specs?

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp

Both slant 6 cars


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:20 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Sounds like I probably don't need to change the cam. How about head work on a turbo? How much can be gained by opening up the head? Is it needed with turbo or does the turbo overcome the stock flowing head enough to not bother doing the head?

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp

Both slant 6 cars


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:43 am 
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You can make power with a stock head, but headwork will help with how much boost you need to make a certain HP, and consequently how much heat you create in the intake tract that can cause detonation (and engine death).

Turbos are quiet. You will not get much of an aggressive sound with a turbo. However, when I went from 2.5" single to 3" single, it did get more rumbly and picked up 20-40 HP w/ no other changes.

Cam specs:

MP 244 deg advertised (who knows at 0.050", but probably 210-215 deg)
0.436" lift. (in my 68 turbo Dart) Installed at 104 centerline.

Here is a cam that I designed for a turbo, based on Oregon lobes. Brian Mimken is about to try this out on his turbo Duster. I sold him the copy I had them make for me back in 2013... I'll order another one when I'm ready for a new shortblock.

Intake lobe: 1947i Exh lobe: 819e
I/E duration ___ I/E @ 0.050 ___ LSA ___ I/E lift ___ overlap ___ overlap @0.050
270 ___ 248 ___ 224 ___ 219 ___ 112 ___ 0.47 ___ 0.437 ___ 35 ___ -2.5

Happy building,

Lou

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:50 am 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Ok so head work and a cam are worthwhile investments. Good to know.

When do you think Brian will try out that cam?

How did you design it? Was it your specs or Oregon Grinder #?

I couldn't figure out how to do quotes so I used regular quotes. Sorry.

"Intake lobe: 1947i Exh lobe: 819e
I/E duration ___ I/E @ 0.050 ___ LSA ___ I/E lift ___ overlap ___ overlap @0.050
270 ___ 248 ___ 224 ___ 219 ___ 112 ___ 0.47 ___ 0.437 ___ 35 ___ -2.5"

Could you break all these numbers down for me, one at a time, and tell me what they mean.

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp

Both slant 6 cars


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Car Model*: 1972 Plymouth Valiant 4dr SL6 Turbo
I stumbled across this posting when checking up on new posts.
Correct me if I am wrong but:

Cam Specs

Advertised duration Intake: 270*
Advertised duration Exhaust: 248*

Duration measured @.050 Intake: 224*
Duration measured @.050 Exhaust: 219*

Lobe Separation Angle (LSA):112

Valve lift Intake: 0.47
Valve lift Exhaust: 0.437

Valve overlap: 35*
Valve overlap @.050: -2.5

I also might be in the market for this cam soon, and am anxious to see how well it works out.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Yes, Joe has it right.

Lou

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:58 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Nice Joe! Thank you. What makes this specifically a turbo cam and is it better than a stock cam for performance (not including the actual turbo boost)? Could I put this cam in my slant even though I'm not doing the turbo yet and gain some additional power? I'd like to get the intake, exhaust, head and cam done first and enjoy the newly upgraded performance before I actually put the turbo on

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp

Both slant 6 cars


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:16 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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My cam is a little on the larger side compared to Lou's but the overlap is still low with the 114 lsa its ground on its an Erson 270 I believe
220duration @.050 and 464 lift on a 114lsa. I also have a good amount of headwork including oversized stainless valves.
My idle lopes pretty decent partly because how rich and low I have it set. my car idles below 700 rpm just because I enjoy a little lope really is my only reason for idling it below 700 lol. I don't really see a point to complicate the setup with 2 turbo's unless you want it for looks because 300-350 could easily be met and spool fast with a reasonably sized single turbo probably a stock Buick GN turbo?? Lou would know more about those than I. I use a precision 6262 on paper its good for 700hp but still spools fast in my setup I'm sure a few sizes down from my turbo would spool really fast. The turbo cam I would say just increases in lift and duration optimize cylinder filling without having so much overlap that you loose boost out of the exhaust valves. Giant cams hang the exhaust valve open long enough to help scavenge and pull the intake charge in for NA engines but would let boost out on a boosted car. correct me if I'm wrong.

Kev

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:21 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Sorry for the delayed response. Been busy this last week.

Kev, that sounds like exactly what I want as well. Good to know. Is your cam considered bigger because the lift is higher? Lou's cam appears to be a dual pattern in termsof duration. His intake numbers appear to be larger than your while his exhaust number is slightly smaller. Your LSA is a couple of points higher but that would make it less lopey than Lou's cam right?

Lou am I understanding that correctly? Is your cam lopier than his?

Lou that's quite a gain for an extra half inch in diameter. I was wondering what exhaust size to use. Thank you for clearing that up. Is the 3" exhaust just helpful to the turbo or would out also help in an NA motor or in my motor before I turbo charge it? I want to come off the Dutras or headers with 2.5" head pipes, go into two 2.5" head pipes into a flowmaster y pipe and come out in 3" and then run it down into a 3" inlet, 2.5" outlet flowmaster 40 and then go over the rear and out the back in a 2.5" pipe.

I believe that'll give me a good sound without the hough pitched drone.

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp

Both slant 6 cars


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:28 pm 
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For a mild-ish NA motor, 3" is really too big, but will run fine too. 2.5" is super overkill for the primaries. 2.25" is even overkill for most motors, but that is what I run on my 64 Dart with big cam, high comp, ported head... 2.5" single is really sufficient for anything under about 275-300 HP. Turbos really like NO restriction on the turbo outlet, so bigger is better.

Lou

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:55 am 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Got it. Thank you

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp

Both slant 6 cars


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Lou is right on the money my car picked up 2-3 mph in the 1/8 mile just going to a 3 inch down pipe using mandrel bends vs the somewhat rough 2.5 setup I had.

Kev

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