Today I had some time on my hands and wanted to 'expand' on the use of the supersix article that Reed had written. I notice a few guys are moving from the the BBD to either the Pinto progressive carb or a Holley 2300, 2305, or other 'ersatz' carb trying to find 'more' of something (power, tuneability, ???). I'd like to see someone cover the 'trials and tribulations' of converting to a Pinto DGAV clone carb, and maybe we can get another article going to answer some questions.


So you just converted to a super six and are now looking for something 'better' than the BBD (more cfm, no throttle shaft leaks, not easy to find another one in the junkyard being a cheby or ford town...), and you're looking at this:






I just installed this a couple months back and loved the increase in power and lack of burning up my clutch (try to 'get moving' with lotsof 'revs'...), and got looking at how easily I might be able to slap on another 'carb' with the right parts...








So I get looking at this thing, and the two brothers on my bench....




And then start looking at this guy that I just rebuilt a few weeks back:




Holley 2300, List # 80179 taken from a mid/late 70's Ford Small block car.
Economizer venturies, Using a red #240 pump cam in the #1 position, #53 jets in both sides, Electric choke, and a dual stage power valve 10.5 for partial enrichment, and 5.5 for final enrichment...

The throttle plates are almost the same with the Holley being slightly bigger:




Things needed to do the job were the carb, suitable pietin, the Mr. Gasket #1937, and two carb gaskets...



I opted to run a thick 2300 gasket and a thin BBD gasket....





I suggest a couple of 'tricks', one you might think about using RTV to make sure you don't get a vacuum leak if the mating surfaces aren't in good shape, or if you can't get the hex socket bolts to torque down too well. I also put RTV in the hollows to make sure a leak didn't occur with the 2300 gasket. When mounting the 1937 put all the socket bolts in and thread down adjust the plate to make sure it's aligned for the bolt heads, then tighten, before that make sure to put the passenger side rear bolt into the adapter as you will not be able to slip it in from the bottom like the other three due to the position of the intake runner...




So then we get to here:





note that nice 'shelf' of bore discrepency, not great for air flow, but I'm not running a modified engine...

Not long after that you should be tightening down the last bolts and nuts for this beast:






Now some problems need to be tackled:



In the picture above:
1) the fuel line needs to be slightly bent to use the BBD line with the threaded nut on it.
2) we need to figure out the choke electrical wiring, and come up with a throttle return spring
3) my hand had the OEM super six cable 'out' as far as it will go...not far enough to reach the lever...

Fix for #1:



Tweak the lower fuel line a bit, then use the stock BBD upper line (threads right into that Ford fuel filter made in Israel...)

Fix for #2a)

Just unplug the 'power' plug from your choke stove 'timer' and plug it into the power prong of the Holley electric choke...



Fix for #2b) shorter return springs, and put them to the 'outside' of the lever....


#3)The supersix stack I used was off a 1978 Aspen with A/C (compressor was long gone)... but the throttle cable bracket had two cable holding positions... for the BBD, I used the original position on the bracket. With the 'extension'





bolted into place the super six cable had enough throw to open the plates properly.... I think a better custom setup would look and work nicer IMHO....




After a few cranks and setting the fast idle, and slow idle properly, it fired right over and had no vacuum leaks. It runs fine in the driveway, so far....

Tomorrow I need to take care of two issues before a test drive:

1) Need to get a pietin for it.
2) Have a slight leak in the accelerator pump housing, just have to replace the gasket for that thing...

Will post more feedback tomorrow. Hope this helps someone looking for the 'next step' without having to plunk $500 for a 4 barrel conversion...
I'll also apologize for not having an automatic car to detail out the need for a kickdown linkage too...(manuals are just too fun....)


Total out of pocket cost for this conversion:

Super six stack :$50 (some places you can still get this price...)
Holley 2300: $40 (friend was 'junking' his Ford Torino....)
Holley rebuild kit, and jets: $20 rebuild kit, $6 for the #53 jets
Mr.Gasket #1937: $38 (had to order from a store)

Total:$148 + elbow grease


Will post Part 2 tomorrow....

-D.Idiot

Thanks D.I. ! After you sent me the info on the "big BBD" I decided to drop that and go after a 2300 off of a jeep 230 O.H.C . So this info you are posting falls right into place for me.

skidderdriver

DI: Great article! I have one of these sitting on my shelf in my garage that I have been wanting to try on a slant, but I first have to get a running slant engine. Josh Skinner wrote an article years ago called "Everything you ever wanted to know about slant six carbs" He addressed a problem with the 5200 that hasn't been mentioned lately-- it's flow rate. This carb was intended for use on a four cylinder motor, specifically a 140 cubic inch motor. According to my Holley reference book, 5200s came with several different CFM ratings: 230 and 280. Most were 280. Josh reported that on his modified 225 the 5200 was too small, but that it might be okay on a stock motor. I would agree with this. The primary throttle on these carbs is VERY small and I would wager a guess that until the secondary opened the motor would be starved for air.

I think if a person is wanted to gfo the staged two barrel route they should either get the proline setup with real Weber carbs that have an adjustable flow rate, or track down a Holley 2350 with a flow rate of 350 or 500 CFM.

I also have a thought about the kickdown on an automatic car. If you have a Super Six kickdown you probably could fit the end of the slotted arm that attaches to the carb onto the arm on the 2300, and just put a bolt in the slot to make the kickdown operate correctly. The 2305 and 5200 (depending on how you maount them) have the throttle actualed similarly to the stock one barrel, and the one barrel kickdown can be made to work.

Reed,I have been wondering if the 5200 works well on the slant because the difference in RPM-powercurve between the slant and the smaller displacement 4 cyls. that the 5200 came stock on.Aparently it does ok because there are a few guys who are running them and seem pretty happy with the performance.Stovebolt engine co. sells the 5200 for around $65 ,and I have been considering this for my super 6 or Clifford for some time.

Skidder- I have never run one, but I want to try it just to see. However, I don't think I would run a 5200 on anything other than a stock motor. It would probably be a better match to a 170 than a 225.

all I can say is OH Boy!!!



The poor 7 1/4" 2.76 rear just doesn't like all the new found power I just added... It has a bit more response on the low end, and the gearing is nice for the highway cruise (it's almost like the Hpak car after 55 mph, but is lacking the 'torque' the long ram manifold delivers...). I figure if I had a 3.55 7 1/4" rear I'd be squeelling the tires all over the place...

Some things that needed to be addressed on this conversion....

1) I had to use a 1.5" spacer under the 'pietin' to get the spectre aftermarket tin to clear the linkage.
2)Had to make a breather port for the air cleaner.
3) I'm pulling about 23 to 25" of vaccuum at idle depending on the rpm.
4) I had to relash my valves during the conversion, it needed it...
5) I also had to reset my timing (bumped it back, I think the 87 octane gas isn't the best grade in town...)
6) The real setback about the 80179 is the metering block has reverse idle screws/ is a smog carb....it runs fine, but took a second to 'reset' my thinking when I tryed to adjust the idle mixture, and it was richer/idle went higher when I turned the screws all the way in, then wanted to die at 3 turns out/ was lean.... that's enough to ruin your logic path.... Dang smog carb.

Runs great, I'm going to drive it to work all week and do a mileage check since I'm about 70% highway, and 30% in town during the week... this car with the 1 barrel and the BBD got 21.3-21.5 mpg highway, if it stays there and I get more 'umph' all the better...

So far it cold starts and runs at 1800 rpm, then the choke pulls off and t warm idle she purrs nicely at 800 rpm (per factory spec).

I have a Pinto Carb that I can rebuild, but won't get to make that conversion anytime soon, as this car is a bit rusty and I'm slating it to be torn down and used to restore another Feather Duster for the 'project X' project...

will post any news as it occurs over the week. I also am looking at a couple of 2300 carbs on e-bay that can be bought for about $50 and rebuilt for another $20. If this works good I may see about getting a couple of cores rebuilt for anyone else who might want to 'try' this out.
(You gotta get the linkage figured out on your car though...)

-D.Idiot

Ive decided to follow your great lead there D.I. .
Do you think that grinding the holes in the manifold to match the 1937 would gain me anything substantial?Or mabey just taper them?

http://www.225.ca/tech/jstk002.htm

Found it!

Hey

I'm goin holley 2300 too, bbut I'm fabbing a custom intake that may allow me to bolt the carb 90* rotated (bowl pointing to the engine) for adressing the fuel mixture distribution issues.

So far I've tried the carb without intake mod and it runs great, I'm amazed of how much it changed from my carter 2bbl. In fact, I've been running the car with a holley 1922 (argentina produced carb, not like your 1920's) that gave me more flow and power than the carter 2bbl.

You conversion looks just great!

_________________
Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

I'm sure 'some' gains could be had by opening up the hole, smoothing the flow, etc...but how much (depending on 'other factors') is the real question...

That's what I like about doing little things like this, to help the other members who are wondering whether it will work, help them get through it, and as always one of them may discover 'something' that wasn't in the original write up to help edit the procedure.

Hopefully we can keep 'fleshing' out some of the details and unknowns so others can benefit from this.

I have a hard copy of the article that Reed has a link to, when I used to frequent the tailfins site, wish we could get some of those articles over here (some do need some editing as a few things have moved on from the past). Sadly Joshua has moved on to a small block in his Dart for racing, he does have lots of info though.


Thanks for the feedback, good luck on the other conversions, and post back on what you find out!

-D.Idiot

I'd love to find a Holley 2305 to put on the Yellow rolling 'lab' just to find out which is better on a stock mill, progressive or 'dialed in' straight 2 barrel...

the venturi on the carb will work better if you cut out that "step" below the carb throats. That step would be screwing up the venturis.... I bet you can get quicker on the 1/4 if you cut out that.

_________________
Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

What are people's opinions about the possibility of using the Motorcraft 2700/7200 variable-venturi carburetor on a slant six? I don't have any experience with these carbs but I just found a description of them in a shop manual.

Any thoughts on adapting one to a slant?

My experience with the VV carbs has been all bad; I avoid them like the plague they are! They love to eat venturi diaphragms.

_________________
O==\=/==O

"A mechanic is Somebody."
- Jim Preston

The VV carb had massive problems with the throttle bodies warping and 'sticking' the VV's in place some times. My buddy the ford tech took the VV off his dad's lincoln and replaced it with a Holley 2300....


Neat idea, just not a lot of design work in the execution...

-D.Idiot

Gotcha. I did some research yesterday on the internet and nobady had anything good to say about the variable ventui carbs. IN fact all of them say they dumped it for a 2300. In fact, like the fuel injection on 81-83 Imperials, there was a factory kit to convert it.