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Covalt - "Project 65 Valiant"
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Exner Geek
Turbo Slant 6


Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 583
Location: St. Louis Park, MN

Post subject: (Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:07 am) Reply with quote

I think the Cox Brothers used to have this problem also. I believe A&A produced some kind of enhanced pump drive for them, maybe it is still available. Maybe the higher line pressures in modified transmissions cause failures the same way high volume oil pumps do. If that was true you would think you would hear more about it. I suspect that interference during installation might be the problem.



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slantzilla
Board Sponsor & Moderator


Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 11939
Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy

Post subject: (Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:33 am) Reply with quote

I believe you can use the pump from an A-500 and and have a converter built with the proper snout. I know the 727 guys have used a 518 pump because the lugs are different. Maybe a 500 is the same?



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DadTruck
Turbo EFI


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 2202
Location: Indianapolis

Post subject: (Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:44 am) Reply with quote

Quote:
bring your car to Mason Dixon in May


will do, just not this year,, good luck with the car,, the effort you are putting in will certainly pay dividends to you.


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Ron Hamby
SSRN National Champion


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 367
Location: Purlear, N.C.

Post subject: (Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:14 pm) Reply with quote

Rick I broke my pump ears at Gateway in Saint Louis on the return road around the year 2000 and with the kind help of a kind gentleman who lives there (wish I could remember his name) replaced it overnight with a used one he had back at home. I have been running the same one since with my fingers crossed. Another thing I will note. Parker, Rose and Harrison had this problem a number of times and someone decided it was easier on the pump to start the engine in neutral which caused less shock on the ears than in park and shocking the pump when pulling it into gear or neutral. I don't know if it has any validity but I have been starting in neutral ever since. It does go from no pressure in park to pumping when you pull it out of park so if it is easier on the ears why not.

Ron



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Rick Covalt
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Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 5319
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.

Post subject: (Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:31 pm) Reply with quote

Thanks Ron, that is some good info to have. At least I'm not alone! Laughing



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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!
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Rick Covalt
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Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 5319
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.

Post subject: (Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:38 pm) Reply with quote

Looks like they have them. But they are pricey

http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/904-Inner-4340-Steel-and-Stock-Outer-Gear-Set__AA12530.aspx



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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!
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Greg Ondayko
Supercharged


Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 4437
Location: IRWIN PA

Post subject: (Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:36 am) Reply with quote

A and a stuff well worth the $ ..pm veneable.. they usually have a spring special... also save on shipping at the carlisle show.


Greg



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Greg Ondayko
69 Dart www.youtube.com/hyperpack

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Brian
EFI Slant 6


Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 430
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post subject: (Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:16 am) Reply with quote

Never thought of that ever being a issue. $250 seems well worth it.



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wvenable
Poser


Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3132
Location: Indy

Post subject: (Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:21 am) Reply with quote

Rick if you want that part let me know. I will be at his shop next week - I can try to get the swap meet discount from last Sat.(ICH) He offers 10% on most items.



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Will
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Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 480
Location: Gloucester, Va

Post subject: (Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:24 pm) Reply with quote

I always carry an extra pump in the trailer. Dis my own pump upgrade and it has worked a long time
I will describe when I am on a computer.
Will


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Rick Covalt
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Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 5319
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.

Post subject: (Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:08 am) Reply with quote

Thanks Will. I'll wait to hear what you did.



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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!
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Last edited by Rick Covalt on Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rick Covalt
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Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 5319
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.

Post subject: (Mon May 22, 2017 6:00 pm) Reply with quote

As you may have noticed I have not given any updates for about 2 months. I got to the place where everything I touched went backwards or broke or leaked or....etc. I wasn't enjoying the work on the car so I just took a break for a while.

After I got the engine installed, the pump broke in the transmission that I was going to use, so I pulled it out and re-installed my stock one I had been running. Then after I fired it up the engine had more oil leaks that I had ever seen! That would be funny if I had not spent 3 evenings and meticulously tried to do it right so I would have no leaks. Along the pan rails,behind the oil pump.... and so on.

I did take the car down to Mason Dixon once in early April and the car went 14.40 on the first run down the track. It sounded fine but felt slow. That is because it was slow for what it should have been. I didn't panic, because I thought my secondaries weren't opening because I forgot to hook up the choke ground. Fixed that and went back out and ran a 14.60! Came in and adjusted timing 2 degrees more advance and adjusted the metering rods(I was lean) and went back out and ran a 14.77. Made another carb adustment and proceeded to slow down some more. Thoroughly discouraged I packed up and went home. That is when I stopped working on the car for a while.

I decided I would just run mid 14's with it and eventually when I felt more motivated I would find the problem. I did come home and verified my cam timing using the Romac dampers markings and it was installed at 99 right where I had them put it. I put my old distributor back in it and waited for this past weekend to arrive.

I figured I would pick the brains of the smart & fast ones (Lou, Ron, Greg...) at Mason Dixon and after this weekend I'd start adjusting and figure out why I was not going as fast as I should be. They all gave me good advice and tried to pull me back from hurling myself over the edge! Laughing I went out and ran 14.60 - 14.80 and and just ran it that way until I had a bye in the 2nd round Sunday, when it proceeded to run a 15.40!! Now am really not happy and I called Lou over and told him what it did. He asked me a question or two and I popped the hood and he asked if the throttle was opening the whole way. And of course I thought it was. But then he or Ron said look at the throttle cable flexing. The outer housing of the cable was actually compressing instead of opening the secondaries the whole way! Why would this happen you may ask? Here is what I did.

I needed a new throttle cable. And looking at the stainless 904 kick down cable kit I had on the wall, I got a bright idea. That cable kit has plenty of adjustments, and a threaded fitting to bolt through the firewall, so why not just use that for a throttle cable? No need to buy the "right" thing when you have something that will work just as well. Let's just say I learned the hard way that that cable is not made to be a throttle cable! So Lou, Ron and I tried to reinforce the outer housing with a split piece of fuel line, some clamps and some zip ties. It appeared to be opening up the secondaries the whole way, at least for the moment. That is when we went out for the 3rd round. I pulled up to the line and proceeded to plant a nice -003 red light but the car felt like it really took off. I stayed in it the whole way and it ran a 13.40 @ 97MPH. That time is just about where I thought I was going to be back in April when I first took it out. (13.20-13.40) I was the happiest red-light loser you ever seen! So the car ran 13.40 with a carb that is definitely too rich and my timing several degrees to far advanced. So after I install the new throttle cable I can begin to sneak up on the tune and should drop a few more tenths. I also was only turning 5900-6000 so there is a little bit more there also.

Thanks to everyone for your help, and for everyone for listening. Boy I'm glad that is over!

Rick



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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!
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sandy in BC
Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer


Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 5960
Location: Burton BC canada

Post subject: (Mon May 22, 2017 7:21 pm) Reply with quote

Well Rick...if a throttle cable was worth 1000 thousands you are the guy to figure it out.

That's the cheapest second you will ever get.

Congrats to everyone...Id love to return to MD again.


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emsvitil
Supercharged


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 5727
Location: So California

Post subject: (Mon May 22, 2017 7:38 pm) Reply with quote

Laughing



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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes
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Rick Covalt
Board Sponsor


Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 5319
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.

Post subject: (Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:51 pm) Reply with quote

I got my old factory style throttle cable back on and began to do the install on my trunk mounted battery. I ran the rod out through the tail light. You don't need back up lights too much on a race car anyway! I need to finish up the battery mount and then re-jet the carb a little and I should be ready for Wilkesboro.

Rick






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