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"4-F" the 1978 Dodge Aspen 4 Door
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DusterIdiot
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Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 10032
Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: Thanks!!! (Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:55 pm) Reply with quote

Looks like my lock up valve and body are "Version A"... not sure where I would get the Version "B" update... now I'm not sure just the spring is going to be the cure....

Thank you very much for the information, it is very educational....


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DusterIdiot
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Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 10032
Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: That was almost maybe it....LOL (Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm) Reply with quote

So I got the Version B "upgrade" module, and it definitely had been on the shelf for 30 years... it looked almost mint, but a little patina... I pulled it apart to make sure some moisture hadn't stuck the pistons in the bores... once I got them out with a needle nose pliers put a little ATF coating on them, they slide in and out just fine...

The "B" module had the piston just like the bulletin showed, but it has a longer stiffer spring than what Reed sent.... it's about another 3/4" longer and as stiff as the spring Reed provided which was a bit more stout than the stock spring... so FYI....

SO I got it all back together and had to go back through and add fluids, make sure belts were tightened.... (no leaks is a good sign...)

Warmed it up then let it run a bit in neutral to check the level and top up the ATF a smidge....

I get no rpm drop in neutral so that was a plus... in drive it still lugs down but not as bad as before (but still about 300-400 rpm), and the vacc gauge still drops to about 12-13 until the brakes are let off and the throttle blipped... I put the rear axle on stands so I could run the transmission in gear through it's paces, and shift points are still good but not as "positive", but the convertor doesn't feel 'locked" in the lower forward gears and seems to engage about 45-50 mph in 3rd which would be about perfect for highway or rural motivation.... I ran it up to 70 mph equivalent in 3rd/lockup and there is no shudder or vibration or any issue...

That being said, I'll have to look at the TSB cache again because going from P or N to Reverse now drags the vacc down to 9-10" and has about the same old 500-700 rpm drop... letting off the brake and blipping the throttle allows it to recover until the brakes are applied and the wheels stop moving.... I even put it in R and ran it up to 3000 rpm just to see if maybe that would shake something loose or make a difference... no change, but at least I know I can do about 29 mph in reverse....LOL

I'm also going to check the power brake booster (isolate it) and see if that makes a difference, if so I will figure out that plumbing afterward... but considering when I apply the brakes I only get a minimal 0.5-1" drop initially when the brake pedal is fully depressed I don't think that is it...

I also may see if allowing the secondaries to open (have them locked out for right now for tuning) might allow the engine to breathe and not have such a large vacc drop to recover from (if it keeps the in gear idle vacc from opening the PV then that will help it be economical)...

I think during winter I'll have the 1977 non lock up 904 rebuilt add a higher stall convertor and swap it in during the spring and see if things improve a bit.

So Reed, I'm sending your spring back... you might keep an eye out for another NOS module as noted for "just in case"... thank you for the help....

Also big thanks to Matv91 for the TSBs posted without many of those pages I'd have not known what was going on and what the factory had done about it.... (and do the repair 29 years later....)

Cool


Once I get these last few things done, I'll have the weekend to drive the crap out of it and see if anything changes or improves....or gets tweaked... then I can get the "ghetto" temporary dual exhaust replaced with something that looks like a factory job....


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Reed
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Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 13259
Location: Fircrest, WA

Post subject: (Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:56 pm) Reply with quote

OK. Happy to have been able to try to help a bit. I will keep an eye out for a revised valve body, and pick up any late 80s era 998s and/or 999s I find for cheap and rob the guts out of them.


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DusterIdiot
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Joined: 29 Oct 2002
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Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: OK that wasn't it... (Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:11 pm) Reply with quote

Checked the tuning. Everything was OK.
Checked the vacc and rpm with the brake booster unhooked from the manifold... no change...
Seems to still drag or drop rpm/vacc when the rear axle is stopped and in any gear...

I took it for a quick once around the block (I'm rural, so that was 5 miles out to the first turn around, and 5 miles back....), just to see if running it under load would either break it or maybe change something....

It didn't, it stalled after I got off the main drag... fired right back up but I had to time things right to get back into traffic and get back to the barn....

I think it truly is the convertor that is locked up or just too tight, out on the road, it easily up and down shifted like nothing was wrong... shift points were very text book and positive and pleasant...

In the short jaunt plus or minus the 'in gear, low rpm, is it going to run shuffle".... I can say that the Stage 2 steering is wayyy too easy to make turns... a 6 year old kid could maneuver it with out a problem... The 3.21 SG 8 1/4" rear is very positive... there is no problem getting up to speed and there is plenty of go left in it (I drove 55, it wanted to keep moving to 70 after the 45 mph 3rd gear upshift....)... for a late car it really feels a lot like the '67 light body valiant in capability... the poly suspension leaves no bobbing or lurching, it's all there during a turn or during acceleration....

I will say that the stock leafs are fine, but I think an upgrade to a 5 leaf set would make it perfect...

next I will have to see if I want to a) just get another lock up converter (preferably with a higher stall, or b) get the non lock up tranny rebuilt, and a new convertor with a higher stall, swap them out and see if that does the trick....


More soon...


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DusterIdiot
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Joined: 29 Oct 2002
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Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: I hope... (Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:18 pm) Reply with quote

Craigslist has a listing in Canby 30 miles to the north for a 1970 A904 from a Dart that has been upgraded with a higher stall and shift kit... the guy upgraded to a 4 speed.. (if he's a slant six guy, I like him!)... I hope he's a member.

The price is reasonable and he's looking for some items to trade toward the cost, so we'll see what happens...

Although I would prefer the late model transmission with the refinements... this might be a better plug and play for 'right now'.... if I get it I may see if a weekend "thrash" on an A904 is quicker than an A833OD swap...


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DusterIdiot
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Joined: 29 Oct 2002
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Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: Ok.... (Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:00 pm) Reply with quote

Transaction was successful last night... was able to make a part trade toward the transmission...

The owner is a younger man that has a 1970 Swinger he is slowly restoring, his machinist owned the car and moved back to Illinois... so he's got a good start on things:

225, 10.5:1, Clifford Intake, Headers, Holley 390, Mopar EI.
Late Disc Brake front, 8 3/4" rear with 4.10... removed this auto for an A-833 OD....

Hopefully he'll join our group, I invited him to come watch at Woodburn.

Anyhow... I spent the day pulling the lockup 904 out of the Aspen, pulled open the 1970 904, which looks like it has newer bands in it and a mild shift kit, it also came with a deep sump pan, and an AREngineering filter extension. I cleaned it out and reassembled it, everything looked good...

Torque Convertor looks to be a Dacco High Stall Reman... we'll see how long that lasts... but should work out for now with the engine and gearing, for what I need it to do...


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Reed
Supercharged


Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 13259
Location: Fircrest, WA

Post subject: (Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:13 pm) Reply with quote

Very Happy


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DusterIdiot
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Joined: 29 Oct 2002
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Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: 10 O Cluck news... (Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:52 pm) Reply with quote

Just got out of the shower....

New Transmission is in, got the front 3 bolts into the bell from the block, put the crossmember back in installed the cooler lines and called it a night as it was gettin really dark....

Tomorrow should go OK... Install remaining block bolts, install TC to flex plate bolts, install dust sheild and starter....install linkage, check cooler lines, check tightness on crossmember bolts, install driveline and parking brake cable install rear exhaust pipe back to manifold...fill tranny (already put some into the convertor since I had drained it completely...)....

If I get it done by the early afternoon, I'll see if that does the trick...if not... I'm gonna really swear off and at torqueflites... LOL...


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DusterIdiot
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Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: Better... (Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:18 pm) Reply with quote

OK... I gotta lay off working on cars for a bit, I need my suspension worked on...gettin' old...

Everything is back together... the deep pan takes some getting used to, I had to run to the store as I ran out of ATF to put into it and it wasnt' at the "add one pint" mark yet....

On the jackstands test revealed that:
1) It must have been the convertor... as this unit in place has no problem in neutral idling fine at 800 rpm, and can turn the idle down to 5-600 to lash valves with no issues other than it shows low vacuum at that level...
2) Putting it in gear shows only a 300 rpm dip at the tach, and in gear vacuum is at 14" at an 800 idle...I'll do more tuning to that later...but at least it's not into the PV...
3)Running it on the jackstands shows the stall speed to be somewhere in the 2600 to 2800 range, but as expected out of a reman, sometimes it's one sometimes its the other... it shifts per the book and isn't harsh, shifts are firm, but not so much as you would tell it's a stock tranny... ran it up to 70 mph on the stands and no issues... letting it back down it down shifted fine with no issues...
4) Initial application of the power brakes shows a 1-2" vacc dip but that builds back up in a moment...
5) Valvetrain is a little noisy, suspect I will have to do another lash and probably put the intakes closer to the card setting (card says 10, I set at 12 just in case, will probably set on the tight side of 11...)


I'm going for a test drive today, if that goes well, I will take it to work for the next couple of days to see what shakes loose...

More later.

Cool


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Reed
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Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Fircrest, WA

Post subject: (Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:54 pm) Reply with quote

Good work Rob! Glad to hear it is getting better. Very Happy


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DusterIdiot
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Post subject: Scope creep part 1... (Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:04 pm) Reply with quote

Waaaaaaaa......


LOL....

Test run concluded early, due to unknown fuel problem... had to get a tow... oddly it happened at the same spot that the torque convertor almost stalled me the last time....luckily it wasn't on the main drag...

Fired it up, idled fine, ran fine...left the driveway and it just kept pulling through all 3 gears and I hit the speed limit at 55 and the thing kept wanting to keep pulling past that....really hard.... rode and steered really good...

The just before my return point the vacc reading started to dive...slowly went from 14" to 7" ,,, and after the turn off it was really dodgy around 5" before it stalled....

Would roll over and run for 1-2 seconds after pumping the pedal a few times... I took a look under the hood and figured it has to be a vacc leak (checked for this in the driveway before leaving and had none)... It would barely run if I pumped the gas after starting it... which tells me a few things... the pump shot is adequate and will let the car barely run while it's delivering it's fuel... but either the PVCR passages are clogged not letting the idle/transition/ mains work... or it's a vacc leak and there's just not enough fuel to stave it off.... I know the bowls are full, as I set the floats up a notch to see if things were a bit lean.. and there was plenty of fuel at the site hole in the bowl... so that wasn't it... banking on vacc leak first, then carb issue (and yes I completely cleaned this carb out and blew the passages out before reassembly...)

I have a couple more 'known' carbs I can swap on....

I also notice that the offy manifold gets a little hot because of the stock manifold choke stove... might think about putting a phenolic spacer in place...


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emsvitil
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Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 5784
Location: So California

Post subject: (Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:23 pm) Reply with quote

Maybe a UFO likes that spot...........



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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes
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Reed
Supercharged


Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 13259
Location: Fircrest, WA

Post subject: (Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:56 pm) Reply with quote

Maybe you have found a new "Mystery Spot." Laughing


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DusterIdiot
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Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: Lol... (Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:27 pm) Reply with quote

Quote:
"Mystery Spot."


I'm going to drive my other brand truck over to there and see if anything happens... if it does, I'm calling Scully and Mulder.... of course there is a very darkly shaded older apple orchard at that corner... maybe I should call Frank Black instead... Shocked


Laughing


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DusterIdiot
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Location: Salem, OR

Post subject: Well I didn't think that was it.... (Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:07 pm) Reply with quote

Going to now vote for: Catastrophic/ Massive Vacuum Leak....

This will be the first time I have ever seen this, where a remflex gasket can be compressed enough that the back manifold half's manifold nuts are only finger tight...(it was already compressed to a 20 lb/ft torque rating....)

So I think that 1) I'll have to replace the gasket since there is no more crush to be had back there... and 2) I bet the tailpipe that serves that manifold half could use a front hanger at the fire wall to keep it isolated.... (like the 1974 A-body has....)


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