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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:17 am
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Location: Denver, CO
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great post, thanks for sharing!! I've been looking at doing this for mine too and the only video I found on youtube that was close was an AMC 258 6cyl conversion. keep us updated

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 Post subject: thanks will do
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:08 am 
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Turbo EFI
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I hadn't seen the AMC conversion, I'll have to look that up.

brian

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 Post subject: Interesting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:54 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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So, I was watching a few videos on the Fuel Command Center (FCC).

The first one says it boils the fuel, it's a piece of crap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvdBOc5vBeE However I question that guy's placement, it's right over his header and right next to the engine...that big V8 will funnel that heat straight up on that FCC. So even though his car wasn't fully warmed up yet in the video, his headers get hot really fast (as you all know).

Most installs that I've seen put the FCC in the front, where the battery goes or on the opposite side, but well away from the engine. This guy did that and also installed a CAI to cool the FCC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_-dZNsXaE#t=55.638775

You've seen where mine is. I also have a big 4" hole in front of my FCC where my CAI used to be connected, so I assume it'll be bathed in cool air there, at least while moving.

I'll report if there are any heat issues with the FCC.

I did run a hard vent return line to my existing tank vent. I've added a few pics for that. I used what was my old fuel return line. I was going to leave it the return on the tank sending unit, but the instructions say that you can't run the vent return to the tank fuel level, it must be above that, so you can't use your sending unit return inlet, I capped mine off and plumbed the return line to the vent in the trunk. As you can see from the pic with the small low pressure gauge (down by the distributor now), my return line had that pressure gauge, so I just left it on there so I could see if liquid was building up in the vent line or otherwise it was pressurized. It was reading zero so far during tests.

Brian

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 Post subject: one more...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:46 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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This guy just modified his FCC so that the vent line is a return line, so the gas circulates through it back to the tank at low pressure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s77BRWlI81c

b

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 Post subject: some more pics...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
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Location: SF Bay Area
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/151192512 ... 6961526645

I didn't have time to tune today, but I did fabricate my cold air intake pipe. I cut a 4" diameter 90 degree elbow from my old CAI system and fabricated a bracket that bolts up using two of the battery box bracket holes. All it needs is a short flex hose and i'm there.

When I ran it around the block the other day I had that plenum on the TBI and it was HOT when I pulled in. So it was sucking hot air from over the exhaust down pipes. I figured I better get the cold air intake hooked up before more tuning, so the air temp going into the TBI is what it will be going forward.

Next time I warm it up, I'll take a temp on the FCC, see how warm it gets. If it ultimately is a untenable issue (gas boiling in it) I'll simply ditch it, and go to a high pressure inline pump and use a return line to the tank from the TBI. Not that much work considering all the work to install the TBI.

Brian

P.S. that model somebody made for me, looks like my dart.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:06 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 265
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
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Very nice work.
Do you think the Fitech unit you have used would work on the end of a L67/Eaton M90 supercharger as a draw through setup ?
I noticed Fitech have a Power Adder unit , but that seems to be for high HP motors.
My slant isn't high HP and i am not running high boost , only around 7 PSI .

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 Post subject: boost
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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I think the FiTech is boost compatible. I read about a "power adder" and that they can handle up to 25 pounds of boost. That said, I would refer to the FiTech website and/or call their tech guys.

http://fitechefi.com/faq/how-do-i-set-u ... for-boost/

brian

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 Post subject: tuning the system
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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OK, I had some time to tune it a bit. I don't fully understand all the tuning fine points yet, just some basics.

I took it for a test drive, it is getting too much fuel on acceleration, but otherwise it runs fine. I need to work on the accelerator pump settings. There is a lot of variation, settings, to play with and the system seems to be pretty sensitive to changes. I may advance my timing a bit, it was set less than I usually do because I was getting some "run on" or dieseling with the Webers on shut down - this is now gone with the FiTech system.

I like the easy starts (not that my Webers were bad, but this TBI doesn't have the raw fuel smell and hot starts are instantaneous). No temperature issues with the fuel command center so far. I did note after idling in the garage for 20 minutes (while I played with the CPU settings) the outside of the FCC got to about 130 degrees, I may add a quick and dirty heat shield (more to come on that). But, after my test drive of about 5 miles highway and few street, the FCC was cool and the carb plenum was also cool to touch.

Very smooth on the highway, but I can't punch it down yet, need to figure out the rich conditions on acceleration. My AFR is too rich pretty much across the board, I set them rich intentionally, I didn't want lean spikes or conditions, I can lean out from here.

I found some neoprene coated 4" flexible fiberglass duct hose, it works great for the CAI. It'll hold up to 275 degrees, not sure that Spectre performance plastic stuff will, and also the Spectre performance 4" flex intake hose is actually 3 1/2" ID, not 4". This hose I found (McMaster Carr) is actually 4" ID and has a smooth inner surface for good air flow.

I added a pic of my dart in the driveway 'cause I thought it looked bad ass, maybe just me...that '01 Prius is my son's car, 40 mpg even when I push it to 75 mph on the highway! That motor is so small!

Here is the updated album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/151192512 ... 506507016/

Brian

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 1784
Location: SF Bay Area
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That front bumper looks practically new, if you see it in person, it is not as perfect as it looks. That said, after 50 years, there is only the hairline cracks and imperfections. I'm tempted not to rechrome it; the rear bumper is even nicer, hard to justify rechroming it, though it clearly is not as shiny as a new one. The rear side of both of them are, as you might imagine, are covered with rust, So, I will at some point rechrome them.

I grew up in PA, where A-bodies rusted to nothing in very short order. The only ones you'd find in this shape were garage kept, grandma cars, etc. In CA though, you can find practically rust free cars that are 50 years old. I paid $1500 for this Dart. OK, I've spent way more than that fixing it up, but the sheet metal itself is worth that.

B

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 Post subject: Tuning...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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I didn't have time to tune it this past weekend, but I did speak to the FiTech folks. I described the rich AFR conditions. First, they said to change the AFR targets carefully, even 0.1 changes make big differences in response. Second, he said that the accel pump settings have a large range, from -80 to 99. I had set the accel pump settings lower, but only -10 or -20, and I didn't play with the AFR settings (just set them and went on). They key from hearing him explain it is to try AFR settings first, then accel pump settings if the AFR adjustments doesn't get me there.

FYI,

Brian

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:37 pm
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Location: CA
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Ideally you want to get the main map dialed in before any enrichments (warm up, accelerator...) because they are normally based on a scaling factor of the main map.

Not sure how the FiTech software works. Can you adjust the main map without changing the AFR targets? You would normally set the main map to reach the desired AFR. The computer would then subtract the o2 reading from the target and adjust the fuel delivered accordingly if there is any difference.

While the AFR targets can be used for tuning, they really shouldn't be. There's a limit the o2 sensor can influence fuel delivered.


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 Post subject: Thank you, Pierre.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:42 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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I'll look into the MAP adjustments, see what it says.

B

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 Post subject: attempted tuning...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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I had an hour or so to play with the system today. First, I adjusted my kick down cable, that helped as I wasn't getting downshift on throttling.

I can't seem to get the accel pump settings right to lean it out enough, the mixture is too rich. It drives OK but I can't stomp on it by any means. In the garage, in park, I can throttle it quickly and the engine seems strong and the response is quick. When driving is another matter, the mixture is too rich. I played with it some today, drove it about 10 miles, but ran out of time.

I did take some temperatures. The fuel command center was running at about 130 degrees, so I added a make shift aluminum heat shield, just zip tied in on, that seemed to help. I didn't see any issues, but that shield did lower the temps. Also, the steel 4" pipe on my cold air intake was running at about 140 degrees, so I think I might need a heat shield around the air filter. The TBI hand held controller said my air temp into the throttle body was 120 degrees, not cold air by any means. At idle in the garage, my exhaust manifold was reading 679 degrees. Pics here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151192512 ... 6961526645

Brian

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 Post subject: more fabrication...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: SF Bay Area
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I was disappointed that my cold air intake (CAI) was not actually pulling in cold air much. I figured that spot was good, but 120 degrees is not cold air. WHen I had it on the other side, I had cut a 4" hole so it was pulling from behind the grill, so it was actually a CAI. So, last night I added some aluminum sheet and before you know it, I had a box around the air cleaner so that it can only pull air from below the car or from that hole in front of where the battery was, and the hot engine compartment air should no longer be an issue.

Pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/151192512 ... 701619445/

I still have to figure out how to tune this TBI. I'm sure it'll work, I can feel certain instances where the AFR is balanced and the power is apparent. I didn't figure out the MAP adjustment as cited above. I've been reading the various blogs and instruction sheets but there are different models and the one's that also control timing have way more adjustments than mine. Also, the instructions seem to be ad hoc, all over the place. They should really have instructions binned by TBI model because the tuning features differ by model. Still, it's probably something really simple that I'm missing.

Brian

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Location: CA
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Just to be clear - when I said main map I meant the table where you have RPM on one access, vacuum on another, and VE numbers in the body.


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