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 Post subject: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:50 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
I have only just found Robert's article on EFI for the slant 6 .
There is a lot of info in there and i am having a bit of a brain fart.
He talks of either using an MSD 6A or using the GM Module and Chrylser electornic dizzy to trigger the ECU,ECM
I have HEI so am set to use that if i go that way .
One thing i found confusing is this ,

On the other end of the spectrum you can use many of the other circuits for their intended purpose, or to "fool" the ECM as can be done with the potentiometer in the temperature sensor circuit. The timing control circuit is one that has some potential, especially for a turbo application of this setup. You could use the GM ignition module with a Chrysler or Pertronix distributor pickup coil and have the ECM control your timing curve. Or, you could use the module only to trigger your ECM and leave the timing control disabled by not connecting module pins E, R and B to the ECM

He mentions not connecting module pins E,R and B but i can't see how it would be connected to the ECU going by the wiring diagram

https://www.slantsix.org/articles/dibia ... e-schm.jpg

Could someone shed some light on this ?
Also does someone know how to cross reference GM ECU part numbers,we don't seem to have GM 1227065 on our early Buick 3.8L V6 batch fired Commodores , they also didn't seem to use a MAF sensor (someone correct me if i'm wrong)
VN/VP Commodores 3.8L V6's are batch fired so i am thinking an ECU from one of these models may work .
The later model Ecotec V8 seemed to (someone correct me if i'm wrong) but they were sequential fire.
Cheers,
Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:31 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
Also in this wiring diagram it shows an oil pressure switch .

https://www.slantsix.org/articles/dibia ... wiring.jpg

Is he talking about the oil pressure sensor unit we have on top of our Australian remote oil filter mounts?
Ours only has 1 wire going to it .

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:28 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2737
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model*:
Quote:
Robert's article on EFI


I am not familiar with Robert's article,
can you post a link to it or provide more detail.


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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:45 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
Here ya go , very interesting .

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... xvC7SfNqtF

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:49 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
Robert also writes

The important thing with whatever ignition is used is that it must generate a DC square wave tach signal. The AC sine wave signal from a magnetic pickup coil, such as used in the Chrysler ignition or a Pertronox conversion, will not properly trigger the ECM. The ECM is a digital device and can’t properly interpret an AC signal, so the AC sine wave must be converted to a DC square wave. If you use the GM ignition module to control your timing you would have to live with whatever timing the General had decided was best (no access to the ECM internal memory with a PC here). With the GM ignition module used to control your timing you would also have to disable the centrifugal advance in your distributor. For now, at least, I’d rather control my own timing curve

How do you convert the AC sine wave signal to a DC square wave signal ?
Would the MSD 6A do this ?

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:02 pm
Posts: 1640
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Car Model*: '23 T-bucket
DadTruck wrote:
Quote:
Robert's article on EFI


I am not familiar with Robert's article,
can you post a link to it or provide more detail.

****************************************************

It's in our own "Articles" database.
http://www.slantsix.org/articles/dibias ... ersion.htm

Roger


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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:58 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
Posts: 5126
Location: IRWIN PA
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BUCKET 636 wrote:
Also in this wiring diagram it shows an oil pressure switch .

https://www.slantsix.org/articles/dibia ... wiring.jpg

Is he talking about the oil pressure sensor unit we have on top of our Australian remote oil filter mounts?
Ours only has 1 wire going to it .



maybe the one like this :
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 03&jsn=436


Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:25 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
Thanks Greg

Here is the wiring diagram

http://www.slantsix.org/articles/dibias ... wiring.jpg

Bottom right corner , is it supposed to be a 3 pin or 2 pin like this

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 68&jsn=768

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:15 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2737
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model*:
Quote:
using the Electronic Spark Control (ESC)


I am using a GM ESC and a GM knock sensor screwed into the crankcase drain plug hole in conjunction with a Casper Electronics knock sensor gauge
in the 83 D 150. It has no effect on engine timing but does give notice of engine combustion knock and allows me to manually adjust ignition timing or upgrade
the fuel octane. The 83 has hydraulic lifters, so I cannot confirm that this will work with mechanical lifters.
Was a nice aid for tuning when using the D 150 to tow. No FI on the 83 D150, a carb and a HEI ignition so the ESC in my application only lights the gauge, no spark control.

http://www.casperselectronics.com/cart/ ... oduct_id=1

I do have MPFI on the 68 Barracuda, using a MS3 Pro ECU that controls fuel and ignition. For the ignition side I use a slant six lean burn distributor
to signal the ECU, the ECU then signals the MSD box. This gets me batch fire FI, to get sequential I would need a crank sensor.

on the conversion, an interesting approach, maybe the best way to do one of these would be to purchase a running example of one of these 30 year old GM cars
cheap, a running car as then you have some knowledge that the FI parts actually function, as opposed to pulling an ECM or MFS from a car that is in the pull apart because that
part died. Once you have the parts you need, sell the remains to the local pull a part.


Quote:
3 pin or 2 pin like this

the two pin unit that you show has a pin for a electronic variable oil pressure gauge and a pin for a idiot oil pressure light. The one for the light is a ground connection with zero oil pressure.
I also have on of these on the 83 D150.

the three pin, has a third pin that was used to send current to an electric heated choke pull off with the engine running and oil pressure sensed.\

to summarize:
the three pin can be wired to supply current with ignition on and when it senses oil pressure, ignition on and no oil pressure, no current
the two pin can be wired to supply a ground with ignition on and when it senses no oil pressure, ignition on and no oil pressure, ground

so with ignition on and no oil pressure are you wanting to interrupt current or provide a ground ?


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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:09 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
so with ignition on and no oil pressure are you wanting to interrupt current or provide a ground ?

I was enquiring as the wiring diagram shows an oil pressure switch with 3 wires (I think) going to it .
Also,there is one wire (BLK/WHT) that goes from the MAF sensor to terminals D 1,3,6,10,12 and 13.
I notice these are all grounds going by the ECM diagram,
.
Would I have to splice the wire from the MAF sensor 6 times or run 6 different wires ?

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:13 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2737
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model*:
the wiring bundle for the MS3 Pro also has several ground wires. I don't have the diagram in front of me but the TPS, MAP, IAT, as well as the main ECU electronics will all have grounds.
What I did was bring all the grounds together then ran one 6 or 8 gauge wire to the battery negative post. Avoid attaching the sensor grounds to a flimsy piece of sheet metal, although that will work for a simple item like a light bulb.
The AF sensor is an important element in a closed loop FI system,, I included its ground as well as the AF gauge ground in the ones running to the battery negative.

You also want a clean main power in line to the ECU. I ran a fused wire from the battery positive direct to the ECU. I have that hot wire on a relay that is controlled by a switch on the dash.

I went through a spat of RF / EMI interference, for info and how it was resolved see the post linked

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62171&p=464762&hilit=EMI#p464762


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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:25 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
Thanks Dad :D , that's some great info .
I am running HEI at the moment but will be going to a MSD 6A as Robert discussed in his write up.
I have a fused power wire going to a relay as power for the HEI.
Would this be suitable as power for the ECU ?

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:46 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2737
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model*:
like I said, I ran a separate, relay - switch controlled power wire direct from the battery to the ECU

and concerning the 3 pin oil pressure switch,
found this article on the internet, ignore the fuel pump info and look at the
pressure switch information

http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/ele ... -pump.html

I did not wire mine in like that. I used the pin that would normally sent power to the choke heater to trigger
the fuel pump relay with an override switch to power the fuel pump relay to pre pressurize the system when
the vehicle has bee setting for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:45 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
More great info , thanks Dad .
Looking forward to doing this conversion , may take a while though .
Gathering parts at the moment .

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 Post subject: Re: Robert DiBiase EFI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:31 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 288
Location: GYMPIE,QLD,AUSTRALIA
Car Model*:
I have a question regarding the injector wiring.
I notice in Robert's wiring diagram the 12 injector wires go into a connector and only 3 come out .
I will be using a VP Commodore (Australian) wiring loom which i only have to add 1 wire to match Robert's diagram.
Only thing is it doesn't have the connector in the diagram that has 3 wires coming out of it .
The VP loom has 2 wires coming off each injector connector (Red and Light Blue)
These go direct into the loom without a connector.
Does anyone have a pinout or wiring diagram for the GM 1227065 ECU ?
Or know which colour of the injector wires (in Robert's diagram) go to the PINK/BLACK , LIGHT BLUE and LIGHT GREEN wires .

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