H'mmm...that's one possibility. Another is a sticking oil pressure relief valve. How long since you pulled and cleaned it?

I suspect the "rebuild" was a bearing and ring swap with a possible valve grind. The bearings most likely have a little too much clearance and when the engine heats up the oil thins out and leaks away. A proper rebuild would have checked the oil pump for proper operation, as well as the bearing clearances. This doesn't appear to have happened.

Unless we know what this "rebuild" entitled everybody is just "pissing in the wind".

...I bet it's a conspiracy!

How about it, ValiantBoyWonder did you dare perform (or allow to be performed) a sleazy, unacceptable, less than 100% spec'd and blueprinted "rebuild" on this Valiant? If so, it's your own damn fault, we're not helping!!! Just what was this "rebuild"??!


Just Kidding,
D/W


P. S. - Probably nothing a slightly higher volume pump wouldn't handle even if you did go the low-buck route...

_________________

If it ain't broke, fix it!

alright men!

i have been away for a short time, working like a champ at my Chef job!!!

now onto the Valiant

this is a long one, so settle in guys....

when i purchased the car, the owner said the engine was rebuilt.
i drove it home that night and it started making a huge knocking noise.
one day i crashed into another car and decided, what the hell, take the engine out and rebuild it..

i tore the engine down to basically nothing and there didn't look like there was anything severely wrong with it...

i took the engine to a reputable shop and had them do the short block which consisted of bored to .60, new cylinders, rings, cam bearings, cam, timing chain and crank bearings.

i assembled the rest myself, with all new parts except the oil pump, which i thought was in still good working order since it had been rebuilt about a year ago.. (mistake?)
making sure not to cut any corners with help from this site and my good old Haynes manual!!!

my family mechanic set the valve lashes, checked compression in each cylinder which came out great. he also checked pressure in the oil pump and said it was "okay"

broke it in just how the manual says to do it, changed the oil at 500, 1,000, and at 2,000 miles.
broke it in with straight sae 30 weight, then put 20-50 in it, which i heard is a mistake since that oil is only used for older, high millage engines?

i only use synthetic, i heard it's good stuff????

at my first oil change, the oil was slightly gray,
the motor was beautifully and if it wasn't for that pesky oil pressure gauge, i wouldn't think anything was wrong with it.....

super six with a 2 1/2 inch exhaust, sounds awesome!!!!

anyway... oil level is always good, never drops...


i'm getting my oil pump changed tomorrow, i'll let you know what happens!!!!

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70 Plymouth Valiant 4dr

message to SlantSixDan:

HaHaHaHaHaHa. Cleaned the relief valve? That's a good one. I have been trying to get away with doing the least amount of maintenance on this car until now. I was really trying to be careful to keep any crud out of the oil pan when I replaced the timing chain, though.

But seriously, if it's not too cold when the car is due for another oil change, I think I will take out the relief valve and give it a cleaning. Maybe even with a crocus cloth! I may even treat it to an engine flush while I'm at it.

Frank

...everything gwine be alright, VBW

If it was a reputable shop as you say, they probably miked the crank journals and they got by with a polish, your clearances are likely on the big end of the spec, but acceptable. A tired pump is the likely culprit here. Another possibility is a hairline crack at the pickup tube thread. Out of curiousity, were there any pressure issues before the rebuild? I think the standard replacement pump anymore is the five-bolt, which has a slightly higher volume than your original six bolt pump. Make sure you get this one.

D/W

_________________

If it ain't broke, fix it!

Careful-careful-careful. Those "engine flush" compounds you can find at the auto parts store can do a tremendous amount of damage.

I have long maintained that your engine is not a toilet (Chevrolet Vega, Cadillac HT4100 and V8-6-4, and Ford 3.0 owners excepted) and therefore does not need flushing except under specific and rare conditions as a corrective measure. Everyone's got a pet theory on how best to flush a crudded-up engine without pulling the pan. Some methods are harmless but ineffective. Some methods are potentially harmful. Some methods are harmless and effective. For best results, pick one of that last kind.

I do not believe there is any such thing as a safe, effective and fast engine flush procedure. You can pick any two of these three: Safe and effective (but not fast), safe and fast (but not effective), effective and fast (but not safe). The risks fall into two categories:

• Softening/damaging engine gaskets and seals so they don't seal well any more
• Sweeping large amounts of dirt and crud from its resting place into the oil filter, which plugs and goes into bypass mode, sending the crаp directly to the bearings and quickly failing the engine. I watched this happen to a Chev 305 once. It was quite a spectacle.

Those "5-minute engine flush" compounds mostly contain Butyl Cellosolve,
which is a specialized solvent that's very good at one particular task: Cleaning the mayonnaise out of a crankcase that's had coolant in it due to a faulty head (etc.) gasket. Their use in any other situation is risky.

My own engine flush recipe is a delicious blend of Marvel Mystery Oil (very light weight and good at dissolving gums and sludges), Kroil (best penetrant on the planet), ATF (detergent/dispersant with good lubricity), and Berryman B12 ChemTool (good at dissolving crud too tough for Marvel Mystery Oil). My procedure involves warming up the engine, draining the oil, changing the oil filter, replacing the drain plug (!), and pouring in the soup. For a 5-quart crankcase, I usually start with 1/1/2/1 (Marvel/Kroil/ATF/B12). Then start and run the engine in the driveway at around 1200 to 1700 RPM with no sudden acceleration and no load applied, for 15 minutes.

Shut down, drain (really let it drain, walk away for 45 minutes), change the filter again, repeat with new soup for 30 to 45 minutes depending how gross the first batch of soup was when it was drained and how quickly the second batch of soup cruds up. Check the dipstick periodically.

If the 2nd batch of soup comes out coalmine black and full of chunks, run in another batch of soup (and another new filter!) and repeat until chips, chunks and tar stop coming out when you drain it. Then it will also be a good idea to service the oil pressure relief valve to make sure it's doing its job, as described in these two threads: thread 1, thread 2.

You'll note the filter is replaced before any attempt is made to introduce a flushing agent into the crankcase, and the filter is replaced again every time you drain a batch of flushing soup. Without doing this, you run the very real risk of inundating the filter, which will go into bypass mode and send all the loosened-up crud directly to the bearings and other critical parts: Goodbye, engine, it was nice gnawing you.

I've gotten amazing amounts of corruption and trash out of engines using this recipe and method. Other methods and other recipes may work better
for other people with other cars. The Kroil people (Kano Labs) have an engine cleanout "soup" of their own they call Kreen; I've had great results with pretty much every one of their products I ever tried, but I don't have enough direct experience with Kreen to comment. And as always, be advised that if the engine is really tired and whipped, even a safe flush can cause additional problems in the form of "new" leaks.

That's quite a procedure you've developed, Dan. I don't expect that my engine is really foul with sludge after having the valve cover off for a tappet adjustment and the timing cover off for the chain replacement.

What I was planning to do is a bit simpler. I had planned to go the local auto parts shop and pick a suitable flush. Back at home I was going to do the following:
1) put the car up on blocks so that it's level,
2) start the engine and let it run at fast idle,
3) since I had waited until the engine was down a quart, dump in the quart of engine flush,
4) let it run for an hour at fast idle,
5) shut the engine down and immediately drain the oil,
6) wait until oil stops dripping from the drain hole and then change the filter,
7) refill with fresh 10w30.

I don't remember which flush I used but this worked well for my 65 in 1992. I may now just let the detergents in the oil do all the cleaning, but what fun is that?

Frank

Interesting, and food for thought. I see we finally found a good use for cheap fram oil filters!

D/W

_________________

If it ain't broke, fix it!

well guys, here's the analysis

since i work all of the time, i don't have much of a chance to change the pump and drop the pan and clean out that pick up tube screen

so i took it down to my boys at Lizarde Auto and they are going to fix it up nice!!!

getting a high pressure oil pump!
they are dropping the pan, new gasket of course!! and cleaning out the screen! at the same time, they said they would steam clean the bottom of the car because it has so much crud under it ( i kind of suggested it cause it needed it anyway)

charged me $280 for all of the above

they said by the time they are done, it will idle at 25 psi and be a nice and quiet (except for the exhaust) engine!!

for lazyness on my part and not changing the oil pump (which i was told was new) i have to go through all of this

shame on you ValiantBoyWonder, shame on you!!!!!

_________________
70 Plymouth Valiant 4dr

Haven't there been problems with running high volume pumps in slants? Some thing about the oil pump gear stripping out

_________________
82 D150-225/727
02 Dakota-3.9/5 speed
87 GMC C7000-8.2 Detroit Diesel/5+2

sooo i called up my shop and found out why my oil pressure was going bye bye!!!

they just said, "you better come look at this"

so it appears to be that one of my cam bearings is slipping out of place, and there was a large amount of metal residue in the oil pan..

crap!!!!!

so i called the place that did the rebuild, they apologized for like 5 mins and told me to bring the car by, they'll take care of it..


so tomorrow i'm going to take the car over

i'll let you guys know what happened


i have to say thank you to everyone who's been helping me out!!! you guys are the BIZ-OMB!!!! (the bomb!)

_________________
70 Plymouth Valiant 4dr

what is it now -a days? nobody's word means crap anymore

i took my short block to be rebuilt at A&A Auto in Highland Park, CA

they then sent my engine to York Automotive because they had a machine shop and put the engine together

turns out that the cam bearing was not installed properly, causing me to lose oil pressure and find a nice metallic sludge on the bottom of my oil pan

i go back to the guy with my car on the tow truck, and he refuses to do the work, he says it'll cost $400 to remove my engine and fix the cam bearing


so i says to him, in spanish, "wait, let me get this right, you're going to charge me $400 to fix my engine, which is malfunctioning based on the fact that you half assed the assembly?" What sense does that make??

am i wrong here? i had to pay $120 plus tow truck fees just to get the car inspected, and now i have to pay to get it fixed, when in the first place it was the machine shop at fault? what the bloody hell???

so here i am, angry, depressed, broke and a pissed off 19 year old...


you want good service, take your car to Lizarde Auto on Figueroa ave!!

tell them that alex with the valiant told you about it, gus is a good man !

_________________
70 Plymouth Valiant 4dr

That is jacked up. You could take the guy to small claims court but for $400 it may be more of a PITA then its worth. But then again a lot of times just the threat of a suit freaks people out and they comply.

Yup, take him to court.

You have to put up a little bit of money, and get the process served. You can ask for this money back when you win, as part of the judgement.

Here is a link:
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/

Good luck.

Greg