Eh?

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

First I ever heard of that. I have alwez used washers with no problems. Please attach supporting data and I will go remove all of my washers.

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

Go do a search; this has been covered numerous times here.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

That's alright. Guess I get an "F" for the day...

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

I confess I didn't know that the 60-62 heads were different than the 63-74. Thanks for the clearification/correction.

On several early 70's heads I have in my parts pile, I've installed the plugs with and without the washers and it is clear that the plugs don't seat all the way with the washers. Removing the washers made my trucks motor (with the old style head) start -MUCH- better.

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1980 Aspen 225 super six

The '63-up heads have a redesigned counterbore at the top of the spark plug hole; the spark plug tube itself seals the plug, and if you use the washer it moves the electrodes out of their intended position in the combustion chamber and interferes with heat transfer from the plug to the head. The '60-'62 heads don't have the special counterbore and need to use the plug gaskets. This is factory info; following it has always produced best results for me. The idea is to prevent the plug from running too hot; following factory procedure and going without the ring washer means you can dial in just a tetch more timing 'cause your engine is just a tetch less prone to pinging, well, you're that much ahead.

From a 1962 Chrysler MTSC book:



From a 1963 Chrysler MTSC book:



The factory TSB discussing the cylinder head changes for '63 and the importance of using the gaskets in '60-'62 heads and not using the gaskets in '63-up heads is here.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Interesting. Does this mean we should be cutting the gaskets off our replacement plugs on all 63-74 heads? Crazy.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I don't cut them off, I grab 'em with a pair of pliers and thread them off.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Fair enough. I've never done it, but always have good idle and such when well tuned. Hafta try some of those long reach plugs and/or cutting gaskets sometime...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

OK...so I've been tinkering with the car again today, and this is what happened. I had a lot of trouble starting it at first, and after trying several times I stopped and cleaned off the spark plugs--#1 was oily again--cleaned between the points, checked all the plug wire connections and tried again. It finally sputtered to life soon after all that.

I let it warm up and idle for a bit, and it was pretty much the same as it's been-- a little rough, but OK. At my uncle's recommendation, I poured a bottle of STP oil treatment into the engine since he said that might help any oil leaks and possibly stop the oil burning, which would cut down on the exhaust smoke. I let that nestle into the engine for a minute, then started her up again.

Immediately I noticed the engine was starting easier and running a little smoother. Seemed like it smoked less, too, at first. So I take let it idle for awhile and rev it to get the oil treatment flowing into everything then take it for a test ride. It runs rough, most noticeably at very slow speeds and when stopped but in drive, but nothing awful. The worst problem it has is that it's really underpowered going uphill.

I take it to the nearest gas station, about 2 miles away--it makes the drive just fine despite the low power uphill. I fill the tank and add a bottle of gas treatment for good measure, thinking maybe some fresh gas might make it run smoother. Doesn't seem to help much. I keep driving, pushing the engine to high revs to keep everything flowing into the system and hopefully working through whatever gunk might be stopping things up.

During all this driving, the smoke varies. Sometimes it's barely noticeable or not there at all, sometimes it's pretty thick, so I still have no idea what it really is or what's causing it. I also got a bottle of stuff to add to the transmission fluid, but I can't figure out where I pour it into. There's a picture of this in my service manual, but it doesn't say where exactly this is, and it looks like a view from under the car. So...how do I do that?

I should mention that the transmission fluid leak was nearly nonexistent today. I feel like I'm getting closer to having the car smooth, and I'm going to try to get a timing light soon since I think timing has to be part of the reason it's running rough. I just don't know what to do about the smoke.

OK...and for those of you who are really ambtious, I also have these questions:

1) I finally figured out where the temp. sending unit is and I think I have to replace it (my fuel and temp gauges currently don't work). I cleaned off the wire contact and it didn't help, then I tried to pull it out, and coolant started dripping as it loosened, so I just tightened it back up. Do I have to drain the coolant to replace this? And is there anything else I should try before I definitely replace it?

2) Where is the fuel level sending unit and how do I test/fix/replace it? I assume it's in/around the tank?

Of course this stuff is not as important as having the engine running smoothly, but I'd like to make these improvements as I go along. Again, I really appreciate the help. Thanks for helping a rookie!

--Phil

You have to drain the coolant some to remove the sender. The gas sending unit is in the tank. Empty the tank and use a BRASS drift to remove the lock ring. Another thing to check for is to make sure the grounding strap is present....its a piece of metal that goes between the nipple on the tank, over a piece of rubber hose, to the metal fuel line by the rear frame rail. The smoke your experiencing might either be the oil rings stuck, or (my bet) the umbrella seals on the valve stems are non-existent, allowing oil to be sucked down past the valve guides into the combustion chamber. Sounds like it would be a Good Thing to replace all gaskets on the engine, transmission, rear, etc. Also is the breather cap (what you remove to put oil in) clean? Since you (I think) have a draft tube to pull gasses out of the crank case, this might be critical on cars so equipped. Do a carb rebuild if you haven't already (didn't read the whole post, so maybe you did). Don't be pushing that old engine to hard until you get everything worked out first. Its a big car with a small engine, so its already working pretty hard! Old car with low miles=multitude of problems...sometimes more so than an old car with high miles.

Phil:

Stop listening to your uncle. Motor snot ("STP") is not helping, it's hurting your efforts. It is for squeezing a last couple of weeks out of an engine so whipped (used up, worn out) that the clearances are too large, causing oil burning. That is not your situation. Your situation is opposite: The engine has sat unused for a long time. Carbon and sludge and assorted other gunk is sticking the parts (e.g. the rings) that are supposed to be able to move freely to create their seal. And, seals and gaskets that are supposed to be soft and pliable have hardened and cracked with age—causing leaks. You will probably wind up needing to disassemble, thoroughly clean and reassemble the engine with new gaskets, seals and rings. You may avoid this if you play your cards right, but STP is a step in the wrong direction.

You can try flushing the crud out of the engine, but it is not a quickie 5-minute deal with a can of "fast flush", unless what you're trying to do is finish-off the engine so you have an excuse to rebuild it. Here is the procedure I use.

Get those books I mentioned previously and start reading! Very few things "pull" out of or off of the assembled engine, and the temp sender is not one of them. You will save yourself a great deal of time, heartache and money if you will spend some time getting up to speed on the basics before guessing at how to remove or fix something.

Finally: can you please try breaking up future posts into paragraphs separated by spaces (as I've done with this post), each one dealing with one topic? It will make it a great deal easier for us to read what you have to say, therefore making it easier for us to help you.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Why? Leave the cap on, and be quick about it and you will hardly lose a drop.

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

Just get the carb/timing/rough running problem out of the way and drive the damn thing! That is my recommendation. The smoke may or may not become a non-issue, but yes, you will probably at some point want to replace the valve seals. The important thing is that you don't let the plugs foul out (may have to put a higher heat range plug in that #1 hole) and keep tabs on the oil level, don't let it get more than a quart low.

Oh, yeah, pull out the trans dipstick (passenger side, rear of engine compartment), get a transmission funnel, and put the TransX in there. Make sure you do not overfill the trans, check it with the parking brake securely on and/or the wheels chocked idling hot in neutral. (I do hope you bought TransX because many of the other snake oil-type products do not work).

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

Have the valves been PROPERLEY adjusted yet???
HyperValiant

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1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress