Some first hand information:

1974 Dart Sport - Holley 1920 - Last ran in 1990.

My son and I have spent over three years on this restoration. New gas tank, new sending unit, cluster works, gas gauge registers a little over half tank which is correct. Fresh gas in tank. Lash set cold to factory specs.

Last night we topped off the brand new radiator, checked oil level, and tried to crank. Starter turned, engine turned, yet did not crank. I pulled the fuel intake on the fuel pump, and felt for suction as my son cranked. No suction. Ordered new part from Advance Auto. (Pump was 34 years old.) Put new fuel pump on tonight.

Tonight we tried cranking several times with fuel line at the carb bowl disconnected. Fuel began flowing. Hooked line back up to carb and tried cranking. Got one large backfire and then another, so apparently I have spark.

Last two facts before questions - I used a degree wheel to set the engine to top dead center. First time to use degree wheel, and I was very sure I had the engine at TDC on the compression stroke. Damper was at three degrees before top dead center and rotor on distributor was at five o'clock position.

Then I removed the number 1 spark plug, had my son bump the starter while I held my hand over the number 1 drool tube watching the rotor spin clockwise and watching the timing mark on the damper. When I felt air from the No. 1 tube blow on my hand and the timing mark on the damper close to TDC, I pulled the distributor and rotated the distributor one tooth counterclockwise, reseat the dizzy and cap, and tried to crank again. I did this several times, one tooth at a time, and still no start.

QUESTION - With every movement of the dizzy tooth shouldn't I be getting closer to starting? Is it possible I could be getting further away? It now has gotten extremely difficult to line up the rotor at the four o'clock position on the compression stroke. I have stopped moving the dizzy and need help. What do I do next?

Now's not when to start second-guessing yourself. See this post and keep at it til it starts!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Flames out the carb suggests that your timing is way off. Pull the valve cover and turn the engine over by hand. Watch the #1 intake valve open and close. Then watch the timing mark. When the timing mark reaches TDC, pop the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing. It should be pointing in the vicinity of the #1 plug tower on the cap. Make it do so, then reinstall the cap and the valve cover. Now try starting your motor. Keep the distributor slightly loose so an assistant can slowly rotate the distributor while you try and start the motor (or you can use a remote start switch and rotate it yourself). Once the motor catches, rotate the distributor to achieve the smoothest engine operation. let it warm up and then set your base timing.

This is the easiest way to ballpark the timing on a slant without using complex tools or doing disassembly. The problem with the thumb over the plug hole is you don't know if the air coming out is the exhaust stroke or the compression stroke. That is why you watch the intake valve open and close- so you know you are on the compression stroke.

Good luck!

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Got home too late to do much tonight. Last night before I stopped adjusting the distributor, I stopped the timing mark at 4% after TDC. Tonight I pulled the valve cover, felt the number 1 intake and exhaust rockers and noticed both were loose. (Remember I set all valves cold some time back at E-0.020 and I-0.010.) I took off the distributor cap, noticed the rotor was way off, pulled it, and adjusted it to the 4 o'clock position. My son tried starting it while I rotated the distributor around the hold down bolt. No luck starting the car.

1. If both No. 1 rockers are loose and the timing mark is close to zero on the damper, does that mean the no 1 piston is on the compression stroke?

2. If I need to manually set the valve lash cold again, is it possible to manually turn the damper without removing the fan blade (again)? I think pulling all spark plugs, removing the fan belt from the alternator should allow me to manually turn the blade/crank. Is this the best way?

3. I also noticed no oil on the rockers when I pulled the valve cover. Is this common when attempting to crank, or should I see some oiling activity when the starter is turning?

Waiting for an answer.

1. Should.

2. Leave the belts on. You can turn the fan with one hand while putting pressure on the belt to turn the engine.

3. It takes a little time for oil to reach the top. Just poor some oil over the rockers and it will be good untill oil pressure reaches the rockers.

Okay, I did just as you stated. I have the valve cover off, so I can watch the #1 rockers. My timing mark came up to TDC, both #1 rockers were loose, and I moved the rotor to the 4 o'clock position on distributor. My son began cranking while I rotated the distributor. No crank.

Thinking maybe I might be 180 degrees out, I set my the timing mark on my damper back to TDC and moved the rotor from the number 1 plug at 4:00 to 10:00 on the plug tower and this time we got a big backfire. Therefore I must be 180 out, so I put the rotor back the way it was the first time. Still no crank.

Could the ballast resistor (four pin type) be the reason for not starting?

Should I replace the coil? How do you test to verify coil is good?

Any other suggestions welcome.

Big suggestion: use the term "crank" correctly. "cranking" means the starter is spinning the engine. i believe "firing" is the term you are looking for.

another suggestion: dont just index the rotor to four o'clock (as viewed from where? the front or side of engine, or...?) make sure it is pointing to the distributor tower that leads to #1 cylinder.

pull all your plugs. insert your engine oil dipstick into the sparkplug hole and verify the piston is wigwagging between up and down relatively close to where the TDC mark is on your balancer.

this situation youre in is exactly why it is not a good idea to fly blind through a no-start condition without a good understanding of the fundamentals of how engines work. this is why you can't make sense of the instructions we are giving you. you are only causing yourself frustration. please take a good hour or so and do a websearch on the four-stroke cycle and pay attention to how the distributor, valves and rotating assembly work with each other so that you will understand why we're asking you to do this, that and the other thing. we can't hold your hand forever.

If, after doing this, and you have demonstrated you know exactly how to time your valves and ignition system it is still displaying these symptoms, i would hazard a guess that the valve timing is off (have you had this engine apart?) which is leading you astray as to where to time the distributor. but we are not at that point yet. first things first.

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I've been calling it as i see it for my entire life and that's not about to change. Take it or leave it.

error

You know what I mean. Don't be so damn critical!
I also know what this means. I am standing at the passenger side fender leaning over looking at the distributor, and if you go look at your slant six from the same vantage point, you will notice that when the rotor
on the distributor tower is at the 4 o'clock position, that is the #1 plug.
Before I put my cylinder head on, I set the car to TDC. (The number one piston was all the way up.) Then to verify this after the cylinder head was back on, I used a degree wheel to find TDC. It was at TDC. All I did with the degree wheel was verify where on the timing mark on the damper was TDC, and that was 3 degrees before TDC. I did not verify the rotor was pointing to the #1 plug tower at the time the cylinder head was reattached to the block. I have since pulled the distributor and when the damper was again at 3 degrees before TDC, and both #1 intake and exhaust rockers were loose (not coming up or going down), I moved the rotor to point to the #1 rotor tower. When the engine did not crank, I reset it to TDC, pulled the distributor, and moved the rotor 180 degrees. Again the car did not crank, but it did backfire loudly. From prior posts, that backfire tells me I was out 180 degrees, so I moved it back 180 degrees to where it had been previously.
I will do the search for four-stroke instructions. I have spent 3 1/2 years on this restoration. I can guarantee you I have read more previous posts and have spent more hours using the "search" function than most SS users. I don't like asking questions that have been answered in previous posts. I try to solve the problem on my own first. If I come to this forum, I actually need assistance, not grief.
If we are not at this point yet, I will reserve question until we get to that point. Please be sure to tell me when I am allowed to ask at that point.

Yes I am frustrated. I am not a mechanic, so when I ask a question I don't expect sarcasm and comments and accusations that I did not do as you instructed. I HAVE FOLLOWED YOUR INSTRUCTIONS AND THE CAR HAS NOT STARTED. One of my above questions asked if the car would start if the ballast resistor was bad. Nobody answered the question. Prior SS posts suggested the 73 and up 225s would not crank if the ballast resistor was bad. I also have not replaced the coil. That question has also not been answered. I am trying to narrow down problems one at a time.

There are many other questions I could answer that I have not asked yet. The cylinder head was rebuilt by a local slant six engine expert. My valve adjustments were done correctly, and I know the engine is at TDC. The engine will ultimately start with slant six forum members help. Those that want to criticize, I can do without your help.

It is my understanding that the car will crank and fire even if the ballast is bad, it will just immediately die after that (thats what it has done on all of mine (i used to unplug it as an anti-theft procedure), but mine are also all pre-'73. How old is the coil that is installed? Have you ever had it running on this coil?
You can get one of those testers at your local discount autoparts store that you can attach to one of your plug wires and it will give you a 'spark in a tube' to let you know if your spark system is working...
...alternately(translation: free) you can pull one of the leads and hold it with a well insulated glove about 1/8" from the block and see if a spark jumps from the lead to the block when the engine is cranking (this is easier to see if its dark).
I repeat the part about the insulated glove, the jolt won't kill you, but itll give you a nice 'wake-up' and you probably won't like it. So good gloves and hold the lead from as far back from the boot as you can manage, dont touch ANY other ground with any part of your body and youll be fine. Anyway, just a quick and dirty test to see if you have spark, one thing to assist in your troubleshooting.
You can also put a plug in the boot and place the threads on a ground (like the block) and look for a spark from one electrode to the other, this may damage the plug, but they're cheap as well.
If you feel at all uncomfortable about this, just get the tester, they're pretty cheap. If you have a timing light, you can also attach it to one of your plug leads (wires) and as the engine cranks, look for the strobe light when cranking; if it lights then your ignition system working. It would also be a good idea to put it on your #1 lead and point the light at your timing marks on the harmonic dampener and see where your crank is in relation to #1 spark event. Make sure that your timing marks are 'painted', I usually use a little paint marker or white-out to mark the timing marks so theyre really easy to see under the light. Since you have manipulated the dizzy a bit, it might be significantly off, but if you reset it while looking at the valves it should be fine.
Let us know what you find out.

Ditto what Eric said about your three questions.

Have you double checked spark yet? Flames out the carb suggests spark, but it never hurts to double check.

Another issue, is your choke working right?

Also, is the motor getting flooded? Do you pump the carb each time you try to start it?

Let the motor sit overnight, then go out tomorrow and make triple sure that you are at TDC on the #1 piston. Then verify that the rotor is pointed roughly underneath the #1 spark plug tower on the distributor cap. Now double check that the plugs are wired in the 1-5-3-6-2-4 firing order.

Once all that checks out, pump the gas once, make sure the fast idle and choke has set on the carb, and have your son try and start it as you stand by at the distributor.

As the motor turns over, turn the distributor slowly counter-clockwise. Turn the distributor counter-clockwise will advance the timing. If the motor starts but runs slowly or "chugs", try turning the distributor a little more counter-clockwise.

If the motor doesn't start, slowly turn the distributor clockwise.

If the motor seems like it is almost catching but just barely not catching, keep adjusting the timing.

You may need to keep the motor cranking for up to 30 seconds as you find the timing that will let the motor run.

Once the motor is warmed up, adjust the curb timing and idle and mixture as needed.

Another thing to check is the spark plug gap. The plugs should be gapped to .035.

Don't get discouraged. It took me years be for I was able to quickly and reliably retime a motor from scratch. It just takes patience. I think the first tie I tried what you are doing it took me several hours to get the motor running again. I drained the battery several times from cranking it so much.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

This engine last ran in 1990. Coil is probably twenty plus years old. It did run on this coil in 1989 and 1990.

It *should* be okay then, as long as it hasn't sat in a bucket of seawater or something... they tend to go bad from use, not sitting around... Do you have a timing light?

74DartSport,

On the dual ballast 73/74 ignition.....
the ballast should read 12 volts on one side (when you turn on the key) and about 6 volts or more on the other side. The coil should be getting that same 6 volts or more.

Have your son turn it over so you can test for spark while you hold and ground the plug. It should be a nice blue spark if the coil is good. If not you could always test the magnetic pickup in the distributor. It should read about 300 ohms or more. Be sure pickup is gaped correctly.

Hope that helps!

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Aggressive Ted

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74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG