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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:26 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
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Location: Houston
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No, the starter won't fit the 130 tooth wheel. I looked at it this morning quickly, it looks like the starter needs to move outward by about 1/2". If I had a 122 tooth flywheel lying around I'd measure it and could tell you the exact amount.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:20 am 
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I have both out on the shelf, I'll measure this evening and tell you what it is.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:15 pm 
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Always Good to have more availability and clutch options for the performance minded slant owner / builder/ driver!


Greg

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:25 am 
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TBI Slant 6

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Thanks Rick, I'd be curious to know the dimensions of the 122 tooth flywheel.

I had about 10 miles on the 225 rebuild when I took the car back apart for some differential surgery but once it's back together then I can start looking at the clutch in depth.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:22 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: SW Washington
Car Model*: 1954 Dodge C1-B8
GregCon wrote:
Thanks Rick, I'd be curious to know the dimensions of the 122 tooth flywheel.


http://slantsix.org/articles/clutch/sl6-clutches.htm

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:46 am 
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Location: SW Washington
Car Model*: 1954 Dodge C1-B8
DusterIdiot wrote:
-Just for more R&D thoughts, I finished the junkyard 11" truck clutch conversion in my Duster and mated it to a 12:1 Fat Pak Dual Dual 225 Forged crank special.... I used a LUK diaphragm clutch for a 1980's slant six truck:

The effort to actuate the clutch was fine (much like the SPEC 10" diaphragm clutches I had run/done in...and much less than the 9 1/4" B&B...I had to put a block of wood under the pedal so I wouldn't over actuate the pedal and ruin the diaphragm fingers).

It had no problem taking the full brunt of the race only engine (with the nitto drag radials on back)...launch was exceptionally positive....but...

The weight of the big flywheel seemed to exacerbate getting a quick shift.... upshifts or downshifts seemed to take longer than 'normal' to get the dog teeth and synchros to line up....


That 11" clutch disc has a lot more inertia than the 9.5" disc and that mass is what the synchros are acting on when shifting. There are lighter discs available and for a race car I'd probably use a 10.5" 4-puck metallic disc.

I also want to point out that the 11" clutch for the 130 tooth flywheel is known as a 10.95" and with a B&B pressure plate it has a scalloped cover like the 10" B&B clutch for the 122 tooth flywheel. Diaphragm covers may be a better (safer) choice.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:13 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
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Location: Houston
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That drawing of the 122 tooth flywheel is useful but not accurate enough to cut/machine from. For example, it shows (I think) a 1/4" difference between the OD of the ring gear and the 'inner edge' of the gear. Even if that means the bottom of the teeth and not the gear itself, it only leaves a tooth depth of .125". In reality, the tooth depth is around .205", give or take.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:11 pm 
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
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Ok I just measured my stock 122T flywheel at 12 1/4". The 130T flywheel measured 13 3/16. So the difference is just shy of 1" which means the starter will need to be moved out 1/2". There is not 1/2" material to the outside of the existing bolts so a small tab may need to be welded on and drilled and tapped. The only other thing is whether or not the starter nose is going to have room to move out 1/2" or if it will hit the housing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:43 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
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Location: Houston
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That sounds right. 1/2". I also agree...the starter nose might hit the shield that goes around it. But maybe not. I tried a mini starter out of some OEM (Mopar) application and it's close enough that I'd have to do more looking at it before I knew the answer.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:39 am 
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I just rec'd my QT bell yesterday too. Very nice piece. Heavier than stock aluminum, but not too bad - 24 lbs for the bare bell. I can see why the 130T fly fits - lots of space in there. Looks like plenty of meat to relocate the starter. It also looks like the open centering hole is made for the T5 and similar trannys (5.125")...

The mini starters can work just fine if you cut the nose off the starter, so that can free up space. If you do that, you can also rotate the starter housing to put mounting holes in different orientation than stock. Should be enough meat there to relocate it outward.

Lou

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:30 pm 
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Just stopped by since I got a notice in my e-mail from the board...

Yes, it's about a 1/2" outward shift between the 122T flywheel and the 130T flywheel as Rick states from
the centerline of the crank to the edge of the ring gear.

The QT bell has a couple of 3/4" mig welds to grind and cut to relocate the starter cup, the material
tests about 12 gauge in thickness if making a spacer to fill the gap...unfortunately if you use common
mild steel and encounter a clutch failure it'll blow the cup off the bell... there aren't many options for
better material and MIG wire on a budget....FYI.

Taking the nose off the starter has merit, but if the clearance on the gear isn't right it will wipe the
sprocket off the shaft of a mini-starter...(11:1 motors don't like to be held up when they light and the
gear fails to retract in time...got spare parts for another mini starter from the first fitting of the 11" clutch
conversion in the duster.....LOL).

I also notice that the 130T ring gear rides a bit close to the linkage/bracket attaching holes, just under the starter location on the bell,
there isn't enough meat to grind this area without compromising the threaded holes...this isn't a problem with a hydraulic
TOB setup.

The other thing to note is a stock steel 130T 3.9/5.2L Dakota Flywheel is just slightly lighter than the stock 143 tooth slant flywheel...
pending a junkyard find on an aluminum dakota flywheel...shelling out for a new one may be the way to go....but may become
cost prohibitive for most street slant six users ($550 QT bell shipped, $350 aluminum flywheel, $200+ McCleod Clutch)...

Good luck....


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:03 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 231
Location: Houston
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Not so on my QT bell....the starter nose cone is formed as part of the bell, it's not welded on. It's also notably thicker than 12 ga. steel. I haven't measured it but it's thicker...more like 3/16 or 1/4" thick.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:59 am 
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I'll check mine, but it is welded on too but pretty heavy. I was sure it is welded because i was surprised it was not welded completely around.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:00 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 231
Location: Houston
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My mistake. Mine is welded. It's a very 'melted in' weld so in my blindness it looked like it wasn't welded.

When I get around to mine, I might talk to a water jet guy here in town. They could cut it out with a super thin, clean cut that way. If he doesn't want too much $$$....

Which reminds me...25 years ago we used to use those high pressure washers at work to clean parts. They were all the rage for a short while. 20,000PSI or more in a hand held wand. They stopped making them cuz guys were getting a tad careless and were slicing off their own toes lol. Work boots were getting ruined in the process.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Location: Salem, OR
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Some eyecandy to ponder...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/147773136@N08/sets/72157709792626496

The 122 tooth flywheel tooth to tooth OD is about the size of the machined surface of the 130 tooth LA flywheel.

It will fit... mocking up a starter nose cone shows that the outer edge of the teeth are centerline of the standard
starter mounting position...given the diameter of the 10 tooth gear, the pocket will have to move outward closer to
7/8"... Will know more when I can catch up to a buddy and use his shop, I think we will make a template of the motor
plate and cut/paste/weld it before actually modding the plate and bell...

I pulled the fork retainers out of the bag and noticed that the tapped holes in the bell on mine are off...so I'll have some
other corrections to make (this won't matter for the hydro TOB guys....)


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