So hello to everyone. I've been reading this forum quite a bit since I started thinking about buying this car. I'm not new to Mopars, and I also have a 68 Dodge Polara with a 383, but I'm definitely new to the /6. I bought this 70 Plymouth Duster with a 198 CID /6 and supposedly a super six carb and intake setup. I'm not too sure about the Carter BBD. It's a model 8069S. So I went to see the car 2 hours away, and talked to the seller, who was a very nice man, who I doubt would provide me with any false information, but everyone makes mistakes, including, I'm sure, him. Well, the engine is a new build, with of course the super six and a MP purple cam (next to the lowest size he said). He said it ran good, but he couldn't get it to start, which was a recent development. It had been sitting for some time (maybe 3 years), but had been started regularly. He feared he knocked something loose when he threw some gas in it but it should be an easy fix. I bought it on faith that it would run. He did mention that he thought it was running too rich because his son had wanted the carb to get as much fuel as it could for performance reasons :/ He may have put bigger jets or something in it, he wasn't sure.

So I brought it home, and immediately threw on a clear fuel filter before and after the pump, just to try to keep any more crud from getting any further into the pump or carb. I suspected the pump, so I bought a new one. I went to take the pump off to replace it, and after seeing how much of a pain that was going to be, and seeing that it was indeed pumping out fuel while I tried to take it off, I started looking at the fuel inlet on the carb.

The needle was stuck, and I unstuck it and cleaned it a bit, and then reinstalled it. I may have caused some kind of float misadjustment when I did this, but I'm not sure. After this, I sucked some fuel into filters to get it a bit primed, then fired it up with a little starting fluid. Eventually she fired, and idled, but very badly, almost like she was a little too low on the idle adjustment. She did idle though, and it didn't sound too bad. I got my hopes up, until I touched the gas pedal. She immediately started to stutter very badly, and it felt like if I gave it more throttle it would either blow a potato out the back or blow up. That's not a technical description but it's what it felt like. I mucked around with it a little, and I don't remember doing anything much, but looked at a few things and tried to start her a few more times, looking to see if anything was obviously wrong. I didn't see much.

At one point I pushed the throttle a little longer than I felt was safe for it and it backfired out the carb.

I then looked up the firing order, just so I could verify everything made sense. That's when I noticed it just 'wasn't right', so I put it to where everything said it should be, with #1 being closest to the vacuum advance pod. Wouldn't start. I pushed all of the wires over clockwise, and kept trying, and nothing, until I got back to where my #1 was one position counter clock wise from the vacuum advance pod. One too high basically. Here she starts, and goes back to the previous condition. I assume this is where it was when I started. She now blows a lot of black soot, continues to backfire, if she even starts. Most of the time there just seems to be way too much gas.

This is where I should also note that when doing all of this it was a not hot but not cold day, maybe 80 degrees out. The choke is also manual, with a push/pull device at the dash connected. The vacuum pulloff is connected and appears to hold vacuum. I have no idea if the linkage or fast idle is correct for the rest of it.

By this time in my fooling around I killed the battery, so I charged it up, and bought new NGK ZFR5Ns and installed them. The old plugs were black with dry soot, but otherwise normal. All of them were equally sooty. The oil I could get my fingers on in the crankcase didn't smell especially like gas, and the oil level seems about right.

I intend for this to be an ongoing post as I try to get things straightened out, but I am really looking for advice or help from those much smarter than me with the slant. I have a new cap and rotor on the way, and I'll be replacing the wires as well, but they are still on the way. I haven't started it since the plugs were changed. I think I'm in for some major carb tuning, so I also got a rebuild kit, the proper jets and rods sized for this carb on the way.

Thoughts?

#1 plug wire is normaly at the 4 o'clock position with the clockwise firing order 1,5,3,6,2,4

Richard

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

does a manual choke setup use the choke pulloff, or do ya have to unchoke it yourself?
I started manual choke vehicles a looong time ago and seem to remember having to push the knob back in to keep 'em running.
I surely didn't know a choke pulloff from a spider gear back then.

BC

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'64 Dart GT convertible, 64 Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust (the Az Dart) & a sixty THREE Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust. (future project)
Early Dart Disorder (EDD) is real, and I've got it!

Well, on this car #1 is 3 o' clock, looking straight on from the side.

The choke pulloff is connected, and does seem to pull it back based on vacuum. I do have to set any initial choke correctly with the manual though. There's basically no spring tension pulling the choke closed at any time, and if I want it closed to begin with I have to push forward on the button, and pull it back later to open the choke, or let the pull off do it.

I just went out and started it since putting the plugs and wires on. It's back to kind of how it was originally now. It starts every time if I get the choke right, and it idles pretty darn good. It smells a little like an old furnace firing up for the first time in the winter. Now if I slowly give it throttle, it will increase in speed just fine, and seems fairly normal. I didn't go too high in rpm though. If I give it lots of throttle fast, pop out the carb. The accel pump seems to be squirting. If I barely touch the throttle and watch the squirt, it will just sort of dribble out, but if I move the throttle much more it will squirt a nice stream. Could be too much or too little though. So all in all not too bad, but still no real ability to give her any real throttle. I guess I just need to get the carb tuned right with maybe the right jets and a new pump and the other common fail parts. It might just be those darn jets he spoke of could be too big. I'm certainly open to comments.

I think you're on the right track, and the parts you have coming will let you set the carb up correctly.

This link is to the BBD manual. Some folks have used a BBD from a 318 engine and had problems related to excess fuel if I recall correctly.

Search this site for that discussion.

BC

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'64 Dart GT convertible, 64 Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust (the Az Dart) & a sixty THREE Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust. (future project)
Early Dart Disorder (EDD) is real, and I've got it!

Oh what a relief! I've got a lot of work left to do, but I am so relieved I don't have some major engine issue! I read this http://folk.uio.no/olafla/carbs/BBD_sla ... rences.pdf
and it made a very specific point about adjusting the choke and throttle linkage first, before anything else. Got my feeler gauges, got the spec (5/64") for throttle plate to air horn, set the idle screw to the highest cam setting, rotated until it popped down to the next highest cam setting, pushed forward by hand on the manual choke wire so the choke plate closed as much as the throttle linkage would allow, and it was way too wide. Took the linkage off enough to bend it, and bent it until it was right. Then, I followed what I figured was the right procedure, by pushing in the pedal, holding it down, pushing the throttle cable button forward (to close the choke), then let off the gas, started it up, and let her warm up. It was a very high idle, so I adjusted the idle cam screw a bit to lower her down just a tad, but it should still be a high idle. I then watched her warm up and kick down to the curb idle cam position. Once she warmed up, no hesitation, no back fire, doesn't smell too bad (a little rich maybe), and runs like a top. Just maybe a slight miss. I'm sure I need to adjust the A/F ratio some. I'll be getting out the vacuum gauge and getting more detailed. Thanks everyone! I'll keep this thread up to date with my progress! Sorry for the long paragraph.

Thanks for that link by the way, although I found the info through another link, that would have gotten me there too!

Cool beans! You got her started and idling nd even running nice! Your jet should be mentioned in the rebuild kit or ask aggressive ted what he runs and how it ran with his various jets. although I believe he has a holley. 58 stock (too lean) go to 61 and she'll fly with no mileage hit.

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I didn' t buy it, I built it.....

Old fuel smells like varnish when burning, and three year old fuel is old, and contains water by now. Engine won't run well on old fuel, will pop and fart through carburetor, and idle quality will be bad.

Don't try to make any A/F or jet changes with bad/old gas present you will be chasing your tail for nothing.

Remove the old fuel from tank, replace with fresh, add Marvel Mystery oil to fuel to lube top end, and hope the valves don't start sticking from the old gas.

Once fuel system is clean, you will be able to make air fuel mixture adjustments and jetting changes as needed. A carburetor rebuild would be a good idea to freshen it up by renewing gaskets and other internal parts.


If this engine still has points, replace the old with new, be sure to lube six sided cam that opens and closes points with a dab of Vaseline or dialectic grease. Often after sitting unused for a few years, points will corrode causing a voltage drop and poor or weak spark. Also place a few drops of oil on felt located in center of distributor shaft under rotor button, and make sure governor weights below points are free of corrosion and move freely.

The next area to inspect is brakes, and flexible lines for cracking and ten year or less manufacture date, replace as needed. Pull all drums, check for stuck wheel cylinders, and bleed old fluid from system until fresh fluid looks clean.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Anyone have any thoughts on what it means that the distributor is clocked sort of weird like it is? Does that mean they put it in off some amount of teeth, possibly so timing could be adjusted?

What difference does it matter if it runs and you can adjust your timing I would leave it alone.

Richard

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

It has been converted from points. I've got a new tank and sender on the way, so for now I'm just going to put some more fresh gas in it and some mystery oil. The gas that's in it should be fairly fresh. Master cylinder is getting replaced tonight, after I bench bleed it as best I can without a vice. The current MC is toast. Since she seems to be running well enough to move it, I'll be having her towed to a shop to get tires put on it. The tires are totally dry rotted. Hopefully I'll be able to drive her away from there back home and see how she runs or doesn't run.

Exciting, isn't it, killnine? When they're up and running and the next few things seem pretty obvious (your tires, for instance) it's always a rush for me.

BC

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'64 Dart GT convertible, 64 Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust (the Az Dart) & a sixty THREE Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust. (future project)
Early Dart Disorder (EDD) is real, and I've got it!

64ragtop:
Killnine's first post:
1967 was first year for mandated duel braking systems.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC