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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:42 pm 
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SlantSixDan wrote:
bob fisher wrote:
a while back you did a good essay on why led headlights were ng for then current tanks. is this still the case


It depends what we're talking about when we say "LED headlights". The "LED bulbs" now flooding the market are not a legitimate, safe, effective, or legal product. No matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims, these are a fraudulent scam. They are not capable of producing even a fraction of the amount of light produced by the filament bulb they supposedly replace, let alone producing it in the right pattern for the lamp's optics to work. It's a "square wheels" situation: halogen headlamps need to use halogen bulbs or they don't work right, and that will always be the case.

(same goes for "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.). They do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. See here for details -- the particulars are different for LED vs. HID, but the principles and problems are the same overall. Halogen headlamps just really need to use halogen bulbs or they don't work right.

Quote:
have been reading new stuff which says the new led headlight bulbs are up to speed and safe


That's a common and effective, simple yet powerful advertising technique known as lying.

All that said (and putting in some relevance to Slant-6 powered vehicles):
there's a number of legitimate LED headlamps (engineered and built as such) on the market -- they range in quality and performance from pathetic to excellent. All of the ones designed to fit in place of vehicle-specific composite replaceable-bulb headlamps are unsafe trinkets, but there are some good ones in the standard round and rectangular sealed beam sizes. In 7" (large round), the 701C from Peterson is good (also sold as the Sylvania Zevo), the Truck-Lite unit is good (also sold as the GE Night Hawk, and by a big, big margin the king daddy of them all is the 8700 Evolution 2 from JW Speaker in chrome or black.

In 200 × 142mm (large rectangular), the JW Speaker in chrome or black is the winner, but the Truck-Lite (also sold as GE Night Hawk) is a fine one, too.

In the 165 × 100mm (small rectangular),
the JW Speaker low beam and high beam are the primo items, with the Truck-Lite low and high right behind 'em.

In 5-3/4" (small round) there are a couple good options, both from Speaker: they make a plain low/high beam, a fancy low/high beam with white LED daytime running light ring around the perimeter, and a super fancy low/high beam where the LED ring around the perimeter lights white for DRL and amber for turn signal. Note the body of this lamp is necessarily larger than a regular reflector-type headlamp, so the bucket cup needs to be modified (central hole enlarged) to clear it.

Most LED headlamps, including all the ones linked above, are not advisable if you do a lot of wintertime driving with snow/ice/slush, because the lenses don't run warm enough to melt off the winter crud. If you want LED headlamps suitable for winter use, that'll be these. JW Speaker just (about a week ago) came out with a lens-heated version of their 7" round lamp, but I'm not seeing availability yet; probably soon. So far none in the other sizes.

Other notes, please read these:

• All of the LED headlamps linked in this post are American-made to a very high standard of quality, performance, durability, and safety. Nice to see real headlamp innovation coming from North America; historically that has not been the case.

• Any of the LED headlamps I linked in this post will easily and hugely outperform even a very good halogen headlamp in the same shape/size. Yes, they're expensive, but they take enough less power than our stock headlamp circuits were designed to supply that you don't have to put in relays or beef up the wiring as you do to efficiently feed halogens or even sealed beams, so if you're crunching the upgrade-cost numbers, factor that in.

• As you go shopping, you will find a mountain of junk on the market, including piles of round and rectangular LED replacements for sealed beams. Some of them look a lot like the ones I've linked (copycat/knockoff); others look totally different. All of them are promoted with claims of performance and legality. If I did not specifically link to it, it is junk, do not buy it. Yes, it really is completely that simple.

• (back to bulbs you asked about) There are effective, safe ways of wringing a fair amount more performance out of many aero composite halogen headlamps, but since no Slant-6 vehicles came with those, send me an email or a PM if you want to talk about the details.


Agree with Dan on all this LED advice. Be careful before you buy any of the LED kits that are all over the internet (specifically Amazon and eBay.)

Its easy to buy these from vendors in China and cheap too. So a lot of people are doing just that and trying to make a quick buck.

If you want to try going LED, don't shop on price. Get them from a reputable dealer who has good feedback and been around a few years.

Tom the Mopar Guy at http://www.kayserchryslercenterofwatertown.com/

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Dan, I read somewhere that LED head lights do not put off enough heat to keep ice and snow melted off the lights. Is there any truth to this? It could be a problem up north.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:39 pm 
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afastcuda1970 wrote:
Dan, I read somewhere that LED head lights do not put off enough heat to keep ice and snow melted off the lights. Is there any truth to this? It could be a problem up north.


Yes and no. On the one hand, the lenses don't get hot, so they don't melt off snow and ice. On the other hand, the lenses don't get warm, so they don't attract snow and ice -- most of the time, it just bounces right off the cold lens. However, if the snow is wet and heavy enough, you can get accumulation. In that case either you'd want non-LED headlamps or one of the heated-lens LED headlamps. JW Speaker and Truck-Lite both have them; they have heat grids in the lens, thermostatically controlled to kick on as necessary. They're highly effective and they don't degrade the lamps' performance, and even with the grids running at full power the headlamp's power consumption is still less than a sealed beam.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:21 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

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Dan, always love your take on the "newest and greatest" technology in light.

I found this video
https://youtu.be/SQF5ESBHLrw

They compare 15 different LED bulbs.

I was wondering what you thought of their methodology? Using a light meter and actually comparing beam patterns at least showed a good comparison.

And some of the worst bulbs prove your point perfectly

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Linked site sells a great deal of unsafe, illegal trinkets pretending to be headlamps and bulbs.

Their methodology doesn't matter, because the product category itself is not legitimate. Halogen lamps need to use halogen bulbs or they don't work right. The "LED bulbs" now flooding the market are not a legitimate, safe, effective, or legal product. No matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims, these are a fraudulent scam. They are not capable of producing even a fraction of the amount of light produced by the filament bulb they supposedly replace, let alone producing it in the right pattern for the lamp's optics to work. Same goes for "HID kits", for the same reason, as described in detail here -- the particulars are different for LED vs. HID, but the principles and problems are the same overall.

But let's leave that aside for the moment and talk about their methodology. Light meter and all that stuff, looks all scientific and stuff? Nope. They take a baseline reading of (they claim) 720 lux at 23 feet. Um...nope! That's an order of magnitude higher than reality. 72 lux is the right order of magnitude, but if they can't even figure out how to read the damn meter correctly, they're also probably not using it correctly.

The "least awful" one they show is the Philips item, but that still doesn't matter, because all they're (failing at correctly) measuring is the maximum intensity. That doesn't tell anything about how the light is distributed, whether that intensity maximum is in the right place, how much too much light is in the wrong places, how much too little light is elsewhere in the beam, etc. Headlighting is a lot more complicated than having adequate light in your kitchen or on your bedside table, but think of it this way: it doesn't matter how perfect the amount of light coming from your bedside table lamp is if it's all in a spray of light across the opposite wall instead of down on the book you're trying to read.

Fine, turn the volume down so we don't hear the guy babbling and using words he doesn't correctly understand, let's just look at the headlight beams on the wall. That tells us something, doesn't it? Well...no. Why? Because this.

So overall an F+/D- for this video, which (no) does not show us anything like the newest and greatest technology in light.

It's worth noting, though, that a new SAE task force is working on devising technical provisions for LED retrofit light sources (i.e., "LED bulbs" designed to replace halogen bulbs in headlamps). No such task force was ever convened for "HID retrofits", which are basically technically impossible to do in a safe and effective manner. But there is enough legitimate R&D momentum toward genuinely functional LED retrofits, and there are enough bogus products flooding the market, that such a task force is warranted. So eventually we will probably see ones that aren't bogus.

But they're not going to come from AmazingHeadlitezOMG.com or SuperBrightLeds.com or Lites-R-Us or Jiaweng Fuyao Shanghai Shining Happy Traffic Industrial Concern, and they probably won't be presented with noxious guitar riffs and misread light meters. I'm just saying, is all. :shrug:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Grote Industries Sealed Beam Replacement LED Headlamps 90951-5 is a 5"x7" rectangular headlight that is far superior to any similar standard typical Halogen lamp, in intensity, Beam pattern/control , cut-off, and color. My first set is approx 1 year OTR, second truck has equally favorable results. Cost is 10X? a halogen, life, we will see. I will soon be adding a third set.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Now we're starting to get into re-runs on this thread! :lol:

That Grote item (this one) is okeh, better than most halogen sealed beams, but you can do better for less money. The Truck-Lite unit puts out more light in a better-focused pattern, has a more durable lens...and is made in America.

(A new scam to watch out for: Chinese counterfeiters are knocking off the various brands of good lamps and using the same part numbers. One particular offender is "Eagle Lights")

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:10 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

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SlantSixDan wrote:
But let's leave that aside for the moment and talk about their methodology. Light meter and all that stuff, looks all scientific and stuff? Nope. They take a baseline reading of (they claim) 720 lux at 23 feet. Um...nope! That's an order of magnitude higher than reality. 72 lux is the right order of magnitude, but if they can't even figure out how to read the damn meter correctly, they're also probably not using it correctly.


Thanks Dan.
That is why I asked the question. A new twist on the marketing speak. Lux instead of lumen with no actual science used.

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