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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Car Model*: 68 Valiant
IIRC, Calvert recommends at least 4" of front end travel. Coilovers usually don't have enough. Very possible this is why the car won't rotate well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:32 pm 
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If Howard says he's turning 9000 that's cool with me. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:15 am 
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Maybe the 9000 RPM was referring to the Jr. Dragster. :|

Anywho, Ryan is going to get the Valiant figured out and get it into the 6’s! :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Car Model*: 64 Plymouth Valiant
9000 with a 170 might be doable, but not a 225.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Location: waynesboro PA
Car Model*: 72' Dart Swinger / 62' Valiant
Hopefully I will get some time this weekend to take a bunch of measurements on things. I know me and Dad measured the front end for travel before the suspension was fully extended and I'm pretty sure it was close to 4 inches but i will find that out for sure this weekend along with measuring everything else.

I found the weight of the car and its current distribution with me in it.
Left Front 598
Right Front 582
Left Rear 462
Right Rear 482
Total Weight 2124

The car does launch much better with a 2nd marine battery and a spare in the trunk. It doesn't bounce anywhere near as much. I haven't tried it with the extra weight this year but I'd prefer to stop the bouncing without adding weight if possible.

Rob, I hope you're right. I'd love to get some traction and try to get the car down in the 6's.

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62 Plymouth Valiant Race Car 2170# 7.1881 @ 93.50 1/8 Mile Best
72' Dart Swinger Street Car, 4 spd, 3330# 14.061 @96.58 1/4 mile Best


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Location: waynesboro PA
Car Model*: 72' Dart Swinger / 62' Valiant
So here is a summary of the measurements.

Front end has just over 4.5 inches of lift.

Rear end:
Caltracs are in the lower hole in front.

Body Lifts 4" before lifting the rear tires off the ground.

Has Competition engineering Rear shocks
15" long when compressed (to the point the car lifts off the ground.)
2" of shock travel still remaining.
19" long extended to the point the springs are hanging. The shock still has about 1" length remaining and is limited by the springs not shock.
Note: The right side shock was mounted in an inward mounting hole that placed it on a much greater angle than the driver side.

What I am considering:
Purchasing a new shock that mounts to the factory mounts.
Custom welding a lower shock mount on the existing spring/shock mount to give me an extra 1.5" of length and move the lower mount inboard slightly so the shocks would be on less of an angle than they are now.

It has been difficult to find a shock with the dimensions that I need since the car is lowered in the rear.

I found a double adjustable shock by Qa1 with these dimensions:
12.80" compressed
19.5" extended

I was thinking these would work in the stock location.
They would also work if I weld in a new top mount and put the shock in straight up and down position.
If mounted using factory shock points this shock would give me 2" of compression and 4.5" of extension.
From what I measured this shock would allow the car the exact same amount of shock travel until the spring is what is holding the car down and would still allow for 2" of compression.

What are your thoughts on the QA1 shocks and having 2" compression and 4.5" extension? The shock is double adjustable so I should be able to adjust it so it wont over extend.

We checked the pinion angle with my weight in the car and it was actually nose up 1 degree. We removed a 4 degree spacer on each side and bolted it back together so that we are nose down 3 degrees.

Let me know what you think. Or if you need other measurements.

Ryan

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62 Plymouth Valiant Race Car 2170# 7.1881 @ 93.50 1/8 Mile Best
72' Dart Swinger Street Car, 4 spd, 3330# 14.061 @96.58 1/4 mile Best


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Try it again before you change shocks since you changed pinion angle. Change too many things at once and you won't know what does and doesn't work. :shock:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Thanks for the measurements, Ryan. Sounds like over extension/compression of the shocks is not the issue. I imagine Seymour checked all this stuff. I have heard spotty things about QA1 double adjustables, although from handling guys. Bill Reilly likes the Ridetech shocks, so you might look at those as well.

I assume you mean 3 deg down relative to the front driveshaft joint angle. Just making sure.

Amen, Dennis. Run the car again before you change another thing. You could bring along shocks to bolt in at the track, or do a t'n't before the next /6 race and then change if still having trouble.

Lou

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Location: waynesboro PA
Car Model*: 72' Dart Swinger / 62' Valiant
Sorry, I didn't get a chance to post here for a few days. Dennis/Lou I know the advice to change one thing at a time is good. However I didn't post everything that we did Saturday night and i've already made a couple of other changes. So here is the "why".

I was looking at the shocks and found that they were not mounted on the same angle. Because it was so difficult to find a shock that would work with the factory mounts, it seymour had made an angle iron bracket that attached to the original shock mounts. The angle Iron was drilled so that a shock with a stud mount on the top could be used. The bracket was probably sufficient but it didn't look overly strong for the amount of abuse it will take. The passenger side shock was mounted at more of an angle than the drivers side as well. I removed the brackets and hardware so that I could use the factory location for the shocks again. When i removed the shocks I remembered why I wanted them off. They are somewhat difficult to tell what setting they are on and the adjustments don't really seem to make much of a difference. The shocks also need removed to be adjusted. So after all that I decided to put a set of stock length shocks on the car temporarily and measure/order a new fully adjustable shock.

Seymour had given me some Rancho shocks that fit a stock Valiant but were too long since the car was lowered. I put them on and found there is about 1/2" of compression available with those shocks. So after that is when i measured and started looking at QA1 shocks in the length that would give 2" of compression and 4.5 inches of extension.

All that to say, it would be a good bit of work to change it back to the old shock setup and it isn't something that I could change out at the track very easily at all. I know it would be better to test one thing at a time but I won't have an open weekend before Wilkesboro so I can't test it before the race. I was hoping to have the adjust ability of the shocks to fine tune it at wilkesboro. Typically we get a lot of time runs there and having a shock that can be adjusted without being removed from the car would be awesome.

The last change that was made was to the caltracs. When we took out the rear end spacers to change the pinion angle it appeared to make the caltracs looser. I was reading and it was mentioned to set the caltrac's till they touch then add 1/2 turn as a base setting. I set them both that way. Any thoughts on setting the caltracs initially?

I know it is a lot of changes at one time and in the future I will try to make one change at a time, but for now I think the best approach will be to set these 3 things up as best as possible and hope I didn't make it worse.

So, question 1: is a minimum of 2" compression and 4" extension a good starting point for a drag racing shock?
Question 2 for Lou: I was looking at Ridetech shocks and they look nice and are less expensive but it seems they are only adjustable on rebound. Do you know if they have any double adjustable shocks? I guess it's not 100% necessary to be adjustable both ways I just thought it would be nice for fine tuning.

Question 3: for anyone with Caltrac experience is my initial setting of tightened till it touches + 1/2 turn, a good starting point? if not what do you suggest?

checked pinion angles again tonight and it looks like the rear end is actually 4 degrees down relative to the driveshaft angle. Transmission is 2* up relative to the driveshaft. It was 1* up and we removed 4* spacers and somehow ended at 4 degrees down. I am guessing once the car is ran and launched a few times that it might lose the extra 1* and settle in at 3* down. Otherwise I don't know why removing a 4* spacer would change it 5 degrees. Hopefully it isn't too much pinion angle..... guess time will tell.

One last good thing. I changed the break in oil tonight and everything looks perfect.... no metal shavings or contaminates. So it looks like the engine is healthy and ready to race the rest of this year. It was a huge relief to find the oil as clean as it is.

Let me know what you all think. Thanks for the the advice and help!

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62 Plymouth Valiant Race Car 2170# 7.1881 @ 93.50 1/8 Mile Best
72' Dart Swinger Street Car, 4 spd, 3330# 14.061 @96.58 1/4 mile Best


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Change only one thing at a time.

This takes time, diligence and patience. You probably have to go to the track once a week to get stuff figured. It might take a year or 2 to get the results you desire.

Change too many things at once then you dont know what's going on.

Greg

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:35 am 
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X2 on Greg's...

Only Ridetechs I know are single adj, but Bill Reilly said they cured a wheel hop problem he was having on his BB Dart even when the double adj Vikings could not. Keep it simple. Throwing parts at this thing will probably not fix it.

Caltracs need to be set as described to work, and I would start there at the track, without changing shocks. Do 1-2 passes, then adjust Caltracs for more tension on the spring by 1/2 turn or so, 1-2 more passes, then 1/2 turn more if better. Go the other way if it get's worse.

If no practice before NW, then maybe just increase tension on the Caltracs and leave everything else the same??

Lou

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:58 am 
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Strange Engineering has both single and double adjustable drag shocks, they look identical to QA-1 shocks. I picked up a front pair from Jeggs (they were on sale).

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:01 pm
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Location: waynesboro PA
Car Model*: 72' Dart Swinger / 62' Valiant
Thanks for the reply's guys. I will do my best to change one thing at a time and document as much as i can to keep track of things.

Matt, Thanks for the book. I got to read all of the sections on leaf springs, shocks and caltracs. That book is very helpful to get a better understanding of how things work. I really appreciate you sending that out.

I found the upper control arm bushings fell completely apart at the last race, so I got them ordered last night. Hopefully they come in the next few days and I can get the front end tightened back up.

From what I'm looking at the Ridetech shocks look like the best option measurement wise for the car. The QA1 and Strange shocks have something close but the Ridetech seems like it would give the widest range of compression and rebound for the size. Having a single adjustment that adjusts both rebound and compression would be simpler too and eliminate one variable that I probably will never need. The Ridetechs are cheaper too. I've been reading a lot about them and they seem to get really good feedback.

I definitely won't have time to test before wilkesboro, so I will set the caltracs to the original recommended setting and then try to adjust that first at the track like you mentioned. From what I was reading it doesn't seem overly difficult to fine tune the Caltracs if the car isn't launching straight and things like that. Hopefully I can learn more about the caltrac setup at wilkesboro.

Thanks for all the help/advice. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon!

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62 Plymouth Valiant Race Car 2170# 7.1881 @ 93.50 1/8 Mile Best
72' Dart Swinger Street Car, 4 spd, 3330# 14.061 @96.58 1/4 mile Best


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model*: 68 Valiant
If it is still crushing the tires try taking preload off the CalTracs to soften the hit. Also, adjust one flat on the adjusters at a time. A little adjustment can make a big difference.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:39 am 
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model*: 68 Valiant
Some reading to keep you busy for awhile. :mrgreen:

https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/show ... p?t=484970

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