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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 5308
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Some folks wanted to see the oil pump gear out of my race car. So here it is. About 70 runs on this gear. It was on a reground core and has a hardened gear and spray tube spraying right on the gears. 10/30 Driven racing oil as recommended by the engine builder. Camshaft matches the pump!! :D :D I probably would have made it through 3 days at Clay City but not much more.

Attachment:
After pick up tube failure.JPG
After pick up tube failure.JPG [ 54.12 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]


This pump is the one out of my back up engine. Same pump and gear on a Howards, new camshaft after 3 years of racing. I thought this one would be the worn one. But I only turn it 5200 RPM as compared to 6-6200 in the race engine. But shows hardly any wear at all. This motor is back in the car
Attachment:
Backup motor gear after 3 yrs..JPG
Backup motor gear after 3 yrs..JPG [ 56.09 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
Posts: 4382
Location: IRWIN PA
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Looks like mine.

External pump time .probably the higher Rpm's ? Thay's my guess for the failures.


Greg

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:27 pm
Posts: 11368
Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model*: 68 Valiant
I've got about a bazillion runs on the one in my good motor and it is not wearing. Dutra gear, Clifford cam I bought used from Mike, 62-6500+ rpm, and 10-30 Pennzoil.

I lost one before on an MP .528 cam. Stock gear and pump. Don't remember how many rpm I turned it, but probably over 6000 knowing me.

Pretty sure it's luck of the draw. :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2323
Location: Indianapolis
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Would be interesting to get a hardness measurement on the pump drive gear that has the wear.
Hang on to the worn gear, someone may have access to a metallurgical lab.
When things go wrong there is usually a root cause, a soft gear would be a possible cause, would need
the hardness checked to prove or dis prove.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
This was one of the hardened gears that Doug had specially done. Not sure testing would tell me anything at this point. They have tested and tried to figure this out for a long time. I will just move on to the external pump on the race motor. If someone else want to test it let me know. Pump won't be going back in .

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Quote:
Pretty sure it's luck of the draw


Yes I agree. It is very discouraging for some young "slant sixer" to put an engine together and then have it wipe out the gear after just a few thousand miles. I wish there were an answer.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:52 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
Posts: 4382
Location: IRWIN PA
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I was in the same position as rick is now with ruster 2013ish.

Was at clay city.. tnt fri nite.

Make a pass massive ign failure.. find nylon gear shredded.

Get it fixed for sat. Morn.. going to tech lane.. idling with 0 oil pressure.

Decided to get rid of the distrubitor too.. as I wanted to keep cam.

Went external pump.

Greg

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:25 am 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2323
Location: Indianapolis
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Quote:
one of the hardened gears


just because the gear that shows the wear was sold as a hardened gear, that does not 100% guarantee that specific gear was hardened properly.
And that comment directs no absolutely disrespect to Doug D, or who ever sold you that specific gear. My working career was all about Manufacturing-Metal Processing-Heat Treating-Plating of engine components, in those environments if something can go wrong it will.

this is a great opportunity to verify either that:
1) a properly hardened oil pump gear can still develop excessive wear
or
2) a soft gear will develop excessive wear

Rick, if would dismount the gear from the oil pump and send it to me ( I'll even pay the shipping, or get it to me at Clay City), I'll get the hardness checked.
Or I have the tooling to easily dismount a gear from a pump. I'll bring that to Clay City and pull the gear myself if you bring the pump.

thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:19 am 
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Quote:
Pretty sure it's luck of the draw


Yes I agree. It is very discouraging for some young "slant sixer" to put an engine together and then have it wipe out the gear after just a few thousand miles. I wish there were an answer.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:21 am 
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Sure John, I'll be glad to pull the gear. I'm not sure how far the hardness goes or any of that. Sounds like you have some experience! :D I'll send you a Pm later.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:52 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 5870
Location: So California
Car Model*: 64 Plymouth Valiant
What was the width of the impellor for this pump?

What was the pressure relief valve set at?


I'm wonder if there was a higher load on it causing the wear...……………...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
The pump had @55# oil pressure. Width I'm not sure. It was a standard replacement pump, not the high volume

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a highly refined, record setting, world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

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