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 Post subject: Weird problem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:51 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
After doing the HEI upgrade my truck now has a charging issue. So somehow the positive and negative are in a loop (checked with ohm meter). No plugs are plugged it. I’ve unplugged the harness and have battery cables off and battery terminal off from alternator. Nothing in the engine compartment so I moved to the inside. After tracing some wires, I cut some just to eliminate them (really shouldn’t have but to late now). Anyway. When I engage my emergency brake the heater wire (positive I believe since it’s red) grounds itself out. Since the connectors are unplugged how is this possible? The emergency brake is on it’s on separate loop and from what I can see and read it has zero to do with the heater control. Does anyone have any solutions or help? This could have been a issue before I did the upgrade but maybe I didn’t notice it. Any help is appreciated and if need be in a pm away. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 1562
Location: Salem, Oregon
Car Model*: 58 Plymouth Plaza 2dr, 63 Valiant Signet 200 2dr
First things first:

What truck do you have?

Did everything work prior to the HEI installation?

What exactly do you mean by the positive and negative are in a "loop"?

~THOR~

_________________
1958 Plymouth Plaza 2 door Club Sedan
1963 Plymouth Valiant Signet 200 HT - "CL4P-TP"
Licensed Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:44 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
THOR wrote:
First things first:

What truck do you have?

Did everything work prior to the HEI installation?

What exactly do you mean by the positive and negative are in a "loop"?

~THOR~


Oops sorry! 1978 dodge d100 slant of course.
Not sure if everything worked prior. The charging system did some I think
The positive and negative battery cables when ohm out shoes almost 0 resistance. This stopped once I removed the battery + cable from the alt and unplugged the connectors from the firewall. The weird this is the wires I’m testing have nothing to do with the heater control circuit and can not see any wires even remotely close to those.

Edit: this started when I noticed the charging system wasn’t working properly and yes after the HEI upgrade Remember now. I followed all the instructions on the HEI thread. I did add the relay as it said.
I don’t see any shorts or grounds on this upgrade as I checked and double checked.
The heater wire has stopped for now as I unplugged it and checked the resistor in the circuit and it’s fine. So I’m going to plug everything back in and fix my wires I cut and check to see if there’s still a short somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 1562
Location: Salem, Oregon
Car Model*: 58 Plymouth Plaza 2dr, 63 Valiant Signet 200 2dr
Definitely sounds like you've got a short to ground somewhere. Having zero Ohms of resistance between the positive and negative terminals is curious. I mean no disrespect, but I am going to assume you can tell the difference between a zero ohm reading and an "infinite" ohm reading... you may or may not be surprised at how many people do not.

When you hook all the wiring back up and connect a battery, do you see or hear a spark? Typically when connecting a battery in older vehicles (unless something has grounded out or otherwise gone cattywompus) there isn't any indication of a spark when connecting the battery terminals. I would start with putting everything back together as it is supposed to be so we can work through it one circuit at a time!

~THOR~

_________________
1958 Plymouth Plaza 2 door Club Sedan
1963 Plymouth Valiant Signet 200 HT - "CL4P-TP"
Licensed Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:58 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
THOR wrote:
Definitely sounds like you've got a short to ground somewhere. Having zero Ohms of resistance between the positive and negative terminals is curious. I mean no disrespect, but I am going to assume you can tell the difference between a zero ohm reading and an "infinite" ohm reading... you may or may not be surprised at how many people do not.

When you hook all the wiring back up and connect a battery, do you see or hear a spark? Typically when connecting a battery in older vehicles (unless something has grounded out or otherwise gone cattywompus) there isn't any indication of a spark when connecting the battery terminals. I would start with putting everything back together as it is supposed to be so we can work through it one circuit at a time!

~THOR~

No spark was noticed before I unplugged everything. The other weird thing is my wiring diagram (Haynes book) is not correct on some things. One of which being where the large 6g wire comes in through the firewall. The book indicates no other connections but the truck definitely has a factory splice going to other circuits. And it does not read infinite only about .03


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:25 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Everything back together now. No more hot wires to the ammeter so that’s good. But, I’m not sure if the alternator is bad, voltage reg, or if there’s a problem somewhere else as it’s not charging the battery. Is there a way I can manually ground or disconnect a wire somewhere, or something to test the circuit? I know if the alternator is not seeing battery or line voltage it will not work.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:29 pm 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 7319
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
Car Model*:
tattoosteve99 wrote:
THOR wrote:
The other weird thing is my wiring diagram (Haynes book) is not correct on some things.


Throw that Haynes book in the fire. It has more things wrong then right. Try to get a factory service manual. They can usually be found on e-bay in paper or on disc.

_________________
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65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:25 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Well I’m sure my charging system is shot. Tried to do what Chrysler called a fields test. Ground out the green wire from the voltage reg and see if voltage goes up. It should but it didn’t. Voltage reg was unplugged during this test. Will update after I have had my alternators I have here tested. But at least the short and hot wires are gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:17 pm 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 7319
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
Car Model*:
What charging system do you have? Do you have an alternator with two field wires or one. Does your voltage regulator have two separet wires, one on either end, or a triangular plug on the front? They are tested diferently.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:11 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Charrlie_S wrote:
What charging system do you have? Do you have an alternator with two field wires or one. Does your voltage regulator have two separet wires, one on either end, or a triangular plug on the front? They are tested diferently.


3 wire alt one bat+ and 2 field with 2 wire regulator with triangular plug


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:40 am 
Offline
4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
So I went ahead and ordered a new alternator and heavy duty adjustable voltage regulator. It was past due for these parts anyway as they were recycled from my parts truck.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:33 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Could someone post a diagram on how to put the voltage regulator on a relay ? I’ve read through Dans post in the HEI upgrade and want to do the same to the voltage reg but can’t figure out what wires go where so it can read the battery voltage not line drop voltage. A diagram would help me more than telling me.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Board Sponsor

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 6110
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model*: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Quote:
Could someone post a diagram on how to put the voltage regulator on a relay ?


Never heard of this? What is the purpose??

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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:01 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:25 pm
Posts: 198
Location: SW PA
Car Model*:
Charrlie_S wrote:
tattoosteve99 wrote:
THOR wrote:
The other weird thing is my wiring diagram (Haynes book) is not correct on some things.


Throw that Haynes book in the fire. It has more things wrong then right. Try to get a factory service manual. They can usually be found on e-bay in paper or on disc.

STOP!!! Don't do it!! Use the Haynes manual to [i]START[i] the fire, that way it made itself useful before it's demise!!.............


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 Post subject: Re: Weird problem
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:57 pm 
Offline
4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 pm
Posts: 48
Location: NC
Car Model*: 78’ dodge D100 slant six
Rick Covalt wrote:
Quote:
Could someone post a diagram on how to put the voltage regulator on a relay ?


Never heard of this? What is the purpose??


It’s in the HEI swap thread.
It allows the voltage reg to see actual battery voltage and not line voltage.
Link is this
viewtopic.php?t=15779


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