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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:01 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2652
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
About the engine oil analysis don't forget about cam bearings possibly being worn, if you do take the engine in for a hot tank treatment they will remove those anyway because otherwise they would be eaten out by the caustic hot tank solution.

On the stainless studs... There are a couple of grades of stainless bolts, 18-8 and 316 being a couple, of those, the 316 are stronger. There may be other grades in there too, as I know there are other grades of stainless plate steel.
As many studs as there are to carry the weight of the manifold stack, I think they will be plenty strong, just don't forget the anti seize. I mean torque spec is only like 10 ft/lb to hold the manifolds on to the head, certainly not enough to strip them.
And on torque specs, when you get that low in the ft/lb scale, I'd convert it to in/lb and use an in/lb torque wrench. I certainly wouldn't convert the other way for those fasteners that need that treatment.
I have several torque wrenches and I don't think any even go that low on the ft/lb scale. On a needle type probably barely enough to get any deflection of the needle at that point.

Honestly for those that have been at this a while, I'd say those bolts Don't get actually "torqued" very often, usually just tightened by "feel" especially when done in the car. By rights they should be torqued for even clamping force being as long as a manifold stack is.....

And you should be able to take the pan, the pickup screen, the rockers with the shaft, the valve cover and timing cover in to the machine shop so they can stick them in the hot tank as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:38 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:45 am
Posts: 33
Location: Tulsa, OK
Car Model: 74 Plymouth Valiant
Well it's been several months since our last update. During the cleaning phase of the project, Roma lost a bit of interest. Roma turned 16 a few months ago and recently got her license. She's been driving my wife's car for the past few months, until I told her that she can no longer work at her job until her car is done. :twisted:

Well, that lit her fire (a bit). We finished cleaning the block, head, manifolds, etc. We painted most of it blue, except the exhaust manifold is black. This past week we did the final scrub down and began the initial assembly. The new cam is in. The new oil pump is in. Next up is degreeing the cam. Speaking of which: I apparently haven't purchased an adjustable timing set yet. Which one should I get? Rock Auto only carries the non-adjustable sets, and that's as far as my experience goes.

Further speaking of parts, I went to purchase the Silver Seal manifold studs and I see that they no longer make them. Additionally, their Amazon store no longer lists them. Where else should I source a new set of manifold studs?

Also purchased:
  • fuel adapters (per the FAQ) and Wix 33032 fuel filter
  • Gates 27003 5/16 fuel hose

I'd really appreciate any help with the timing kit and manifold studs, please. And sorry for the lack of photos. My other daughter bought a 2001 Beetle that also needs some TLC, and between those two cars, plus my own two cars, I'm turning wrenches as fast as I can. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 3:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 16180
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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The easiest thing with the timing set is use a non-adjustable unit, but drill out the cam pin hole and get some offset bushings (SB Chevy pieces will work, from Summitracing, etc). I always just get Dorman studs from the parts store.

Sounds like fun and happy building!

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:01 am 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8242
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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Dart270 wrote:
The easiest thing with the timing set is use a non-adjustable unit, but drill out the cam pin hole and get some offset bushings (SB Chevy pieces will work, from Summitracing, etc). I always just get Dorman studs from the parts store.

Sounds like fun and happy building!

Lou

Just a word of warning on the timing set. Most of the replacement timing sets have a cam sprocket that does not have a "hole", but have a "slot". The only way you can put a bushing in these sprockets is to drill a hole in a different place. I think this is beyond the abilities of dgebhardt at this time. Just need to be sure the sprocket does not have a slot. Agree on the studs. I just go to a good nut and bolt store.

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65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 16180
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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Best to get a timing chain with a hole rather than a slot, YES. If you have the slot, you can return yours and almost certainly get one from Rockauto or Ebaymotors with a hole.

Lou

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"You mean you still have a Slant 6 in that thing?"


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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:28 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:45 am
Posts: 33
Location: Tulsa, OK
Car Model: 74 Plymouth Valiant
New timing set was ordered; one with a hole not a slot (Enginetech TS495). I also ordered a set of cam degree bushings and a reamer. I mostly a woodworker, and this metalworking stuff is a bit new to me, but I have a large drill press that I'm sure is up to the task of drilling out the cam gear and installing the bushings.

In related news, the city sent me a nasty-gram about the car. Apparently a neighbor complained about a derelict car that's been stationary for over a year. Well, I can hold them off for a bit, but I need to get this ol' gal running ASAP. :shock: This started as a teaching moment and a father-daughter project, but Roma has been focusing on school lately (she's in all advanced classes and also taking college classes as a high school 10th grader). I've stepped in and will be carrying the bulk of the rebuild myself.

I spent the last couple of days installing the crank and prepping the head. I've lapped the valves (since we manually did a backcut). Tomorrow they will be installed. The lifters were installed. Per the Doug Dutra book, I've placed a piston in cylinder 6 (without any rings) in preparation for the degreeing. The timing set will arrive any day now.

Roma also helped today with the carb rebuild. We replaced the 2 main gaskets, swapped the #61 jet for a #63 (thanks again @matv91), adjusted the floats, and cleaned it out. We found that the plunger for the accelerator valve (I think) was mis-installed previously and the rubber piece was torn. I also believe that the vent portion of my carb is missing the lid and whatever goes inside. Can somebody look back a few posts and let me know what I need to buy or is my carb good to go without the vent cap, etc?

So I have less than a week to get the timing set and cam degreed and the engine fully assembled. Then I need to install it back into the engine bay and get it ready to move (fingers crossed).


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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:09 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:45 am
Posts: 33
Location: Tulsa, OK
Car Model: 74 Plymouth Valiant
Well, there was a delay in shipping the new timing set, so I used the existing one, plus the degree bushings. I ended up setting the cam timing at about 103' (stock was 106'). The bottom end was assembled and buttoned up. The head was installed along with the valvetrain. I set the initial valve lash at 0.020", thinking that during break-in that the cylinder temps will rise as the rings break-in. I'll adjust them tighter after break-in. All the accessories were installed and the manifolds were bolted up. Those were the biggest pain so far. It took Roma and I the better part of 2 days to get the engine back into the engine bay and bolted to the trans. I think I made about 20 trips to the hardware store to get new bolts where needed. Good thing that my local Ace Hardware is just around the corner from me.

I installed the radiator, power steering pump, AC compressor (not working, yet), alternator, battery tray, and battery. Note that the battery tray was Swiss cheese, but I slapped a layer of fiber-reinforced Bondo on it, then ground it down a bit to smooth it out. All new hoses and vacuum lines were installed. I think I bought almost all of the 5/32" vacuum tubing in my local area. Fluids were added.

I struggled getting it started initially. Turns out that one of my coil wires had a break at a splice. And by the looks of it, I made that splice roughly 2 years ago. :roll:

Break-in went well. 2000+ RPM for roughly 30 minutes. Initial timing would not adjust past 0' (which was the sticker value) and I could not find the right tooth on the distributor to move to a new adjustment range. The initial test drive in the neighborhood showed that the trans was not working well. The muffler was rusted through and will need to be replaced. The left turn signal doesn't work but the right signal does. Inspection of the brake master cylinder showed that it was full of rusty liquid and very low. I topped it off but it will need to be flushed ASAP. Speaking of brakes, I hadn't driven a car without power brakes for a long, long time. I almost panicked when I had to really press on the pedal to stop the car. Cylinder compression is 150PSI across all cylinders. Plugs look black, so I will need to figure out why it's running so rich. No vacuum leaks that I could find with a can of starting fluid.

With a mental middle-finger to the person that reported us to the city, Roma and I drove around our subdivision for the better part of an hour, revving up the muffler-less car and waving at every neighbor that we saw. We also found one neighbor that was working on an old MG in his garage. I need to talk to him later. :D

Photos to come soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 4:28 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:45 am
Posts: 33
Location: Tulsa, OK
Car Model: 74 Plymouth Valiant
A few photos, as promised.

Image

Image

Image

Image

I also recently discovered that I'm missing the heater control valve. I was wondering why the vent temperature in the car was always hot. I ordered a new one and I will need to fab up a bracket for it.

I also found that the float in my carb was bad, causing a lot of issues. I posted another thread about those specifically. This is why the carb is missing in these photos.

Still to do:

  • Fix windshield wipers
  • Purchase wiper fluid bottle
  • Purge old brake fluid
  • Assess state of the suspension
  • Drain and refill differential; check driveshaft and u-joints.
  • Fix lightbulbs, blinkers, etc.
  • find leak in AC; fix and refill with refrigerant
  • drain coolant (water + radiator flush), refill with proper ratio of coolant & water
  • fix radio
  • replace broken fuel tank sending unit


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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:00 am 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm
Posts: 1553
Car Model:
The initial test drive in the neighborhood showed that the trans was not working well. Missing some parts. A spring and a clip. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=66287&hilit=spring


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 Post subject: Re: Roma's 74 Valiant
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:55 am 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm
Posts: 1553
Car Model:
Thank you for your up dates and pictures, no spring in pictures, i should have mentioned that a long time ago. Any way with out return spring tranny lever will be at about half throttle all the time. Which will make all kinds of problems.Late up shifts late or no down shift etc.


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