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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:00 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 214
Location: Upper So. CA
Car Model: '65 Valiant 170 T5
Thanks all!

Got to drive a back-country road with it last eve. Pure joy! Although I'm starting to see the need to add a front sway-bar. Guess that I'll have to step up my work on that assembly. It also tends to step-out on a rough section in a corner. Clearly needs more compliance in the front and the rear. Currently running KYB's & I think they're just not the right answer. Contemplating going with Bilsteins. I've had great results with their off-road dampers, but oey! that's a big bite.

I've also been fighting an occasional spit-back thru the carb that is embarrassing and annoying. I need to review that whole pair of systems as I can't recall many of the details.

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:56 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:36 am
Posts: 1117
Location: Rome, GA
Car Model: 1963 Dart 270, 1980 D150
That spit-back could be the result of a momentary lean condition brought on by a faulty accelerator pump or it could be a timing issue.

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:29 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 214
Location: Upper So. CA
Car Model: '65 Valiant 170 T5
I've been all over the map with both the timing and squirter size, so I'm re-grouping. Since I can't recall any details I'm going to pull the dist and see how much mech advance it has and then get that all set up. Thinking to shoot for 32° mech + initial by 2k RPM.

Then I'll have a look at the squirter, see what is in there, and try a two step change in both directions. See which makes it worse. Suspect that a pump cam kit purchase is in my future. Recommendations for whose to buy?

A "feature" that adds variability to all of this is that the heat riser no longer is in contact with the floor of the plenum. So cold engine driveability, even on this Lower Left Coast, varies greatly with engine temperature.

I'm also running an "8 Pin" GM HEI module. I generically don't like the GM modules because of their heat sink and power consumption problem, but this module has run an Order of Magnitude better than any of the 3 Mopar modules that I previously used (Orange, Chrome, & Gold). But I'm digressing. The reason I mention this is because of where the GM module had to be mounted. The location results in trigger wires that are ~8" long in a high RFI/EMI environment. I did twist them together over their whole length, but it really wouldn't surprise me to learn that the spits are false triggers caused by the RFI/EMI from leaking spark-plug cables. Been too long, can't recall the details of those either, so I'm thinking to replace them with some from Magncor. I saw this brand of cable cure noise in a Data Acquisition system on a engine dyno when previously changing to MSD cables had no effect.

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:30 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 214
Location: Upper So. CA
Car Model: '65 Valiant 170 T5
On a totally unrelated note, I find it amazing the huge t-bars sizes I'm reading about some \6 guys using for cornering. I'm still at what I think are the stock size \6 t-bars and I'm not yet seeing a need for anything stiffer. Maybe this is because of the KYB dampers? I've been looking at going to Bilsteins and I have a sway-bar under construction.

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Thom



Cross-threaded is tighter than Lock-tite


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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:03 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:43 pm
Posts: 922
Location: SoCal
Car Model: Toad Wagon
I'd not've thought of that wheel design for that body, but they really do compliment it nicely.

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:20 am 
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Board Sponsor & Moderator
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 14613
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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I am not a huge tbar fan either, although with good shocks they ride fine on the street. If you are on a road course with sticky tires, you do well with bigger bars, but for all around street handling performance, you can do very well with soft bars, good shocks, and a stiff sway bar.

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:37 am 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:48 pm
Posts: 5830
Location: Burton BC canada
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I like soft bars...stiff shocks and swaybar.

..when 1 wheel is loaded the sway bar transfers some of the load to the other wheel making the stock bars feel stiffer.
.....too stiff and you chatter out on rough corners.

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 14613
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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When you are driving to Farpoint Station in the Gamma Quadrant, you don't want stiff bars. :roll:

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:18 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 214
Location: Upper So. CA
Car Model: '65 Valiant 170 T5
Any sort of rough surface in a corner upsets the car now. Typically it steps out as each axle passes past the bump or whatever. So first under-steer, then over-steer resulting in a loss of line that usually forces driver correction.

The KYB's are better than what the car came to me with, essentially nothing, but I'm not impressed. I'm thinking Bilsteins due to my experience with them off-road. I sure hope RCD has the valve stacks & pistons worked out.

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Thom



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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 14613
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Car Model:
The Hotchkis shocks (I have single adj) are very good. I have not tried the bilstiens.

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:23 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 214
Location: Upper So. CA
Car Model: '65 Valiant 170 T5
Waiting on an FFI shipping quote. They & PST offer the Bilsteins for about the same price where the Summit price on the Hotchkiss is about $30 more. Researched the Hotchkiss a bit, they're Fox under the labeling but no idea how much Fox had to do with the actual damping tune. Hotchkiss makes it sound like they did it all, which is plausible but I'm not sure that I buy it. Any bias against buying from PST?

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Thom



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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 14613
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Car Model:
PST is fine but less personal/interactive than FFI. I will be curious to see how you like the Bilsteins. I have the single adj Hotchkis and they are really nice, both handling and ride-wise. When you drive after adjusting it is easy to feel the difference.

Cheers,
Lou

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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:57 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Car Model:
The 8 pin HEI requires an external ecu to control timing. Otherwise it operates in "limp home" mode.


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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:45 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 214
Location: Upper So. CA
Car Model: '65 Valiant 170 T5
Thanks, Lou. I'm thinking to go with the Bils simply because there doesn't seem to be much experience with them on this board. After I get them on and should you find yourself on the Lower Left Coast with some free time I'd be interested in your driving impression.

Kesteb, I am running the 8 pin in limp/timing mode, but have a dist with mech & vac advance. Since reactivating the car I've been DDing it like this for several months, and had driven it like this for several months prior to parking it. The jury is still out on if it will care or cook. Other than the occasional spit-back thru the carb, which at this point I believe is a tuning problem rather than a system components problem, it seems to run fine. I would say that it is an easy Order of Magnitude better ignition than any of the 3 OE electronic ignition boxes that I tried prior. I chose the 8 pin on purpose, it interfaces nicely with the GM TBI coil and its only unsealed connections are the trigger inputs. Which I've "sealed" with adhesive lined heat-shrink and filled with dielectric grease. The eventual plan is to go to TBI with ECU controlled timing, but I'm a ways from being able to do that.

It is currently 52°f & ~60% RH outside and when I go to start it to go to work in a few minutes it will light off in about 1/2 of one crank revolution with no choke and no touch on the throttle. That is what it should do in those conditions, Though I do think that I'll be spending some time this weekend figuring out where I left the timing and mech advance at over a year ago as I suspect that it is not right.
EDIT: OF course it didn't start like that THIS morning. oey...........

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Thom



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 Post subject: Re: ntsqd's Valiant
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:40 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 214
Location: Upper So. CA
Car Model: '65 Valiant 170 T5
Minor update: a box full of Bilsteins arrived last night.

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Thom



Cross-threaded is tighter than Lock-tite


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