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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:55 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 309
Location: Florida
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slantzilla wrote:
Hmmmm, after reading 3 pages of the dink pulling contest I seem to get that the idea is if you want to box your control arms go ahead and do it. It may or may not help anything, but it won't hurt it either........ :mrgreen:


And I am not sure anybody made that claim that it does significantly, to be precise.

Obviously its a free country, and making choices without reasoning that others would feel is explainable beyond a whim, is still allowable, and so is inquiring to what that or lack reasoning of reasoning might be when people mention their solutions without basis.

We all have different standards for our choices, and few here seem to be able to reflect on those choices, openly, IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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I'm just trying to see how many pages it takes before JCC sees the errors of his ways! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:09 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 693
Location: Houston
Car Model: 68 Valiant
In the end...this is a mod that serves mainly to make the modder feel like he's done something good. We call that a 'feel good' mod. There might, maybe, be an LCA that actually benefits from this mod - like the LCA that is being used in a mud bogger that gets frequently pulled out of the mud by a chain tied around it.

For me, and the 99.9999% of all other A-Body owners, it adds weight, needless complexity, and serves to make the arm more susceptible to retaining dirt, grime, and water. Just look at the number of seams and crevices that have been added - all of which are places for rust to start.

Anyway, I have to go now....today I am adding those strips to the rear bumper that hang down and drag on the ground to eliminate static electricity. Then I'm adding a spoiler to the trunk lid for more stability. I feel better already!


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:49 pm
Posts: 1081
Location: Houston, TX
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I really hate adding fuel to this fire, and my experience on the issue at hand in no way relates to my feelings about anyone involved in the argument. That being said...

I've been endurance racing a '64 Dodge Dart for over 6 years now. 18 Lemons races (on road course tracks), each averaging ~13-14 hours of hard cornering, acceleration, and braking. 1.12" torsion bars (advertised 300 lb/in wheel rate), a crappy Addco 1-1/8" front sway bar, 225-width "summer performance tires," and minimal lightening performed on the chassis. It's actually heavier than stock curb weight due to the 6-point DOM roll cage. It's far from the fastest car out there; the engine has probably varied over the years from 120-160 crank HP, but it gets driven hard. Cornering is the only way we can make up time on track.

In that time we've worn out about one and a half sets of front ball joints, and early on we destroyed a pair of those one-piece poly strut rod bushings before we wised up and went with the two-piece Moog rubber ones. We've never had an issue with the stock LCAs themselves.

Please be kind to each other. This forum has always been a (relatively) drama-free place compared to other automotive forums, and I'd prefer it stayed that way.

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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 6:13 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 3343
Location: Indianapolis
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Quote:
fuel to this fire


SpaceFrank,, did you actually watch the video that is in the first post in this chain?
If you did not, watch the video.
If you did, go back and watch again and note the following items:
1) the lCA that was repaired/strengthened had wider spacing between the two rails that allowed some play at the torsion bar mount.
That specific LCA was fixed.
2) a second LCA that had some minor play was mentioned as a 'possible' candidate for repair/strengthening
3) an additional LCA that had no play was quickly set aside and identified as fine as is.

The OE LCA's on my 68 Barracuda were between items 1 and 2, for play at the torsion bar mount, after completing the fix shown in the video they are now
very much like the one identified as #3 above. Did my set of LCA's spread over time or were they simply poorly constructed from the factory?
Or was it both? I really don't know.

For LCA's that have spread between the sides, it is obvious that, one could just cut the welds apart at the top tie, compress the sides and only re weld the top tie.
But if one already has the welder out, the torsion bar mount tightened up. Why not tie the complete assembly together?


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:50 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: Houston, TX
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I watched the video. The original repair makes sense. The question of whether the LCA halves spread apart during the life of the car, or if they were like that from the factory, is an important one IMO. If it's the former, then an additional gusset on the bottom also makes sense. Even if it's the latter, I'm about the last person to cast aspersions over a few ounces of unsprung weight.

I never took any pictures of the Race Dart's LCAs before we started racing, but I guess I could check under my other '64 A-bodies and compare the gaps today. The other Dart was supposedly a "little old lady's car," but a previous owner of my Valiant crashed it hard enough to crack the K-frame around one of the strut rod bushings, so it'll be an interesting comparison.

One thing I just noticed when re-watching the video is how much angular play is left in the pivot even after the repair. It seems like LCAs without the raised lip around the pivot would be more prone to this kind of slop since there's a shorter distance between the two supports. Maybe a weld-in bushing would help with this, but if the strut rod is doing its job then I don't know how much value it would add.

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Somehow I ended up owning three 1964 slant six A-bodies. I race one of them.
Escape Velocity Racing


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:41 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 309
Location: Florida
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Danarchy wrote:
I'm just trying to see how many pages it takes before JCC sees the errors of his ways! :lol:


That's makes two of us, I'm here all week. :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:48 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:39 am
Posts: 519
Location: Australia
Car Model:
DadTruck wrote:
Quote:
fuel to this fire


SpaceFrank,, did you actually watch the video that is in the first post in this chain?
If you did not, watch the video.
If you did, go back and watch again and note the following items:
1) the lCA that was repaired/strengthened had wider spacing between the two rails that allowed some play at the torsion bar mount.
That specific LCA was fixed.
2) a second LCA that had some minor play was mentioned as a 'possible' candidate for repair/strengthening
3) an additional LCA that had no play was quickly set aside and identified as fine as is.

The OE LCA's on my 68 Barracuda were between items 1 and 2, for play at the torsion bar mount, after completing the fix shown in the video they are now
very much like the one identified as #3 above. Did my set of LCA's spread over time or were they simply poorly constructed from the factory?
Or was it both? I really don't know.

For LCA's that have spread between the sides, it is obvious that, one could just cut the welds apart at the top tie, compress the sides and only re weld the top tie.
But if one already has the welder out, the torsion bar mount tightened up. Why not tie the complete assembly together?


I’ve seen many sets of lower arms that were gusseted due to this problem. No, they were not completely plated, they just had a few plates welded on here and there. This repair was common way back when these things were common on our roads. Perhaps the poor road conditions over here didn’t help? Perhaps it was the way they were manufactured by Chrysler Australia? Who knows, but I’ve certainly seen many sets with gussets welded in , and the play was certainly reduced.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:02 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 2107
Location: SF Bay Area
Car Model: 67 dart 2 door hardtop
I bought some LCA's that had the sway bar tab so I could install a sway bar. My original LCA's ('67 dart) did have a little slop, but not much. The one's I bought had a ton of slop, whatever they experienced, whether poor manufacture or wear, and I assume it's the latter because they were way sloppy, I don't think Chrysler would put those onto an assembly line that way. I did cut the welds, adjust the spacing to a tighter spec, and weld the plates on there as part of the repair. Do I have stronger LCA's, definitely. If I were a racer would I have done this? Depends, drag strip, no way, I'd be shaving metal off, drilling holes or some silly thing. Road racing, probably would have done it. Was it necessary for my daily driving? No way. Do I care about the few ounces of added weight? Nope. I get the rust catcher argument, but I live in sunny CA where my 52 year old dart shows no signs of rust in the undercarriage. I grew up in PA where salt would have made me think twice about putting those plates on there.

I guess it would have been easier to weld sway bar tabs onto my original LCA's, but that wouldn't have been as much fun...so, yes, it was a job satisfaction, feel good repair, but structurally they are stronger. I took physics in college - they're stronger.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:15 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Moderator
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Car Model: 68 Valiant
Bump for Venables

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:59 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
Posts: 7037
Location: IRWIN PA
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slantzilla wrote:
Bump for Venables



Wayne's got out the hot glue gun??!?!?!??!???

Call the fire department now!

Greg

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:02 pm 
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model: 68 Valiant
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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