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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:35 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Peachtree Corners, GA
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
I know some of you have done this before - I wanted to create a thread to compare notes a little bit.

I'm working on modernizing a '63 valiant, and want to upgrade to 17" wheels. Tire selection for 15's just isn't very compelling anymore.

I got a set of 2019 Mustang rims for a good price recently, and am trying to figure out how to make them fit. I know some of y'all here have bored out the center hubs to fit the mopar hubs. I'm thinking. can make them fit without doing that and am curious if anyone else has done so.

I measure the hubs on the Mustang wheels at ~2.76". The mopar hub I measure at ~2.81. However, due to the offset of these wheels, they're naturally not even close to sitting on the stock flanges. Measuring the disk brake hubs on the front, they're ~2.74" past the Mopar hub diameter at the base.

The cop car rims I have measure about a 9mm positive offset, and these mustang wheels have a 37.5mm positive offset. This gives about a 1.1 inch spacer to achieve mopar factory offset with the mustang wheels.

My thought is that I can machine spacers in the back that have a Mopar hub on the inside, and a Ford hub on the outside. Then do the same for a set of spacers on the front. I'll also need to swap out the wheel lugs to be an inch or so longer. By doing this, I can preserve the factory offset (and scrub radius) for the front, keep a factory Mopar spare in the trunk in case of a flat tire, and avoid modifying the Mustang rims in the event that I want to change them for something else in the future.

Do y'all see any significant flaws with this idea?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:10 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
Posts: 8914
Location: IRWIN PA
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I never machined my oe Mopar Hubs - I have always just opened up the Ford wheels.

I say you have 2 options: - use chunky bolt-on spacers to get the wheel and offset placed correctly for your needs.

With those 17'x 8's you probably need a 1.5" spacer to get upper ball joint and tie rod clearance.
Like this:
Image
Image


or use 3" long studs on OE MoPar Rotors and stack spacers as needed.
like this:

Sorry, these pictures are not very good..
Image
Image

Either way, they should work fine.

Greg

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:46 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Peachtree Corners, GA
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
Thanks Greg! That's exactly the information I was looking for.

I'm considering the second option you posted - swap out to 3" lugs, and use a really thick spacer. I have a lathe with a 12" swing, so I was essentially figuring I could machine my own spacers that are Mopar on the inside and Ford on the outside so neither the rims nor the front rotors/rear drum hubs have to be touched.

Do you know if it matters if it's a really thick spacer vs the bolt on spacers? I've always just assumed those bolt on spacers existed so that folks didn't have to change lugs, and if you do, it doesn't matter.

Thanks for the tip about the upper ball join and tie rods. Do the tubular UCA's help with this at all? The stamping on these rims is 17x7.5J. I need to get the tires that are currently on there removed so I can do more mockups; they're way too big to fit an A Body.

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:16 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
Posts: 8914
Location: IRWIN PA
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Well, remember if you go with option 2, unless you build a hub-centric spacer it will not matter that the spacer had Mopar / Ford. Hub ID's.

Access to a monster lathe with 12" swing would be nice, but the spacers are already readily available.

All of my spacers rely on essentially converting the wheels to lug centric devices as none of the wheel registers ride on the OE Hub anymore and my spacers do not have the lip to mimic the OE Ford Hub.

I have had the '64 Dart pulling ~2000# of trailer and on the track at CMP top speeds ~105mph and blasting into the corners at 80 MPH with this setup and have had no problems.

Sometimes when the studs are pressed in they can go in a bit crooked, so check your press work with a square to be sure all 5 are square after the full press.

I don't think the Tubular upper arms offer any benefit here.
The issue is usually with the ball joint itself either at the grease zerk, or at the lip of the socket flat areas of the joint itself. The upper arm itself (stamped construction) will be fitting inside the wheel.

Greg

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:52 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Peachtree Corners, GA
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
ah, got it, that helps!

So you've essentially just opened up the center bores on the rims so they don't register to anything, and stack spacers to get the offset required. From there, you just rely on tightening the conical lug nuts correctly to ensure that the wheels are centered.

I appreciate the feedback and pictures!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:31 am 
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Location: Blacksburg, VA
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That's it. I have done this with a dozen or so Mustang wheels. I use a 1.5" drum sanding wheel on my hand drill. I stand on the rim or hold it between my feet, run the sanding wheel around the middle, then I reorient my body 180 from the initial position, run the wheel around again, then 90 deg, then 180 from that. This keeps the hole still circular to account for any irregular sanding position you put your hands/arms into. Takes 2-4 min per wheel tops.

Lou

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:56 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: IRWIN PA
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I use a similar method with the die grinder in place of the sander - Same result.

Skookum as Frig!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:00 pm 
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Plan to upgrade the whole of your steering linkage; 17-inch wheels and tires are going to put massively more stress and strain on all those components than they were designed for.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:26 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: IRWIN PA
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SlantSixDan wrote:
Plan to upgrade the whole of your steering linkage; 17-inch wheels and tires are going to put massively more stress and strain on all those components than they were designed for.



Yep.

I Have the Larger Tie rod ends (11/16" C Body Sourced I Think) a new pitman arm the FFI adjustable (able to be tightened) early a Body Retrofit kit for the idler arm.


Greg

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
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Location: Blacksburg, VA
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Dan has a good point. Here is my setup: I have stock steering linkage on my 64 Dart except for the HD 11/16" tie rods and 73-76 ball joints (and big brakes/spindles), and I run 17" rims and fairly sticky tires. No real problems although probably accelerated wear on pitman, idler. This is quite a light car, though. Probably 150 lbs less than a factory 64 Dart (or 63 Valiant) on the front tires. 'Glass hood, no hinges, aluminum parts on the engine, cast crank motor (40 lbs drop), no front bumper, alum radiator, T5 trans and alum bellhousing...

Lou

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