Slant *        6        Forum
Home Home Home
The Place to Go for Slant Six Info!
Click here to help support the Slant Six Forum!
It is currently Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:12 am

All times are UTC-07:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:15 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 5:53 am
Posts: 742
Location: Crestline, CA
Car Model:
Hi all,

I am looking at different steering boxes, and I see that there are now three 16:1 manual boxes available

Firmfeel

PST

Flaming river.

Any experience or opinions on any of these choices?

Thanks

Greg


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:25 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23566
Location: North America
Car Model:
Unless you're building a special-purpose racecar, my answer would be "none of them". On a street-driven car, even in a lightweight early A-body with a lightweight aluminum 225 engine,
a 16:1 nonpower box (no matter who makes or sells it) efficiently saps all the joy and fun out of driving the car. If you want to be able to drive around town and park the car without sweating and cursing yourself and the car, and you don't want to have to white-knuckle the steering wheel on the highway because the car's all twitchy (because if you dial in any positive caster for self-centring action the car will be an even worse bear at low speeds) forget that 16:1 box idea.

20:1 is where it's at: ideal balance between steering effort and number of steering wheel turns lock-to-lock.

Slant-6 A-bodies got bushings in their steering boxes. B-bodies and V8 A-bodies got roller bearings. The bushing/bearing boxes interchange with each other, but the bearing boxes are nicer. Get with Firm Feel or Steer and Gear for a built 20:1 box with bearings and you'll be all smiles.

(If you do decide you really want a 16:1 box, there is no good reason to go for anything other than a correctly-built Chrysler box; its aluminum housing weighs less than the iron/steel Flaming River type boxes, and there is no weakness or other drawback to the aluminum housing)

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Last edited by SlantSixDan on Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:29 pm 
Offline
EFI Slant 6

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 7:32 pm
Posts: 281
Location: AZ
Car Model:
Or........

If you are looking for something a little more lively and are looking to reduce the weight of your front end, there are aluminium 16:1 factory boxes. Firm Feel did have new gears for them back in the day, dunno about anymore. We've done a couple of cars (one with electronic steering assist built inline) with them and enjoyed them quite a bit with aggressive/modern steering settings (-1* Camber 7-9* Caster with just a touch of toe and modern tires of 275 aspect and up) They are a great vendor and know their stuff.
Borgeson has come out with 14.7:1 Power boxes that are 7lbs lighter than the stock power boxes and quite a few of us have quickened them up with Q/R arms as well, netting a great driving package.

I personally have no experience with PST, or Flaming River outside of their steering columns, which are pretty good.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:58 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 14811
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Car Model:
Flaming River is actually 19:1 and that one works very well but is a few lbs heavier than a stock box, if you care. 16:1 can be a bit much depending on steering wheel size, your body strength, and car wt over the front whls. With stock body and drivetrain, it will be tough to steer. I agree that 19 or 20:1 is a great choice for anything but quite light cars or racecars. I have a 16:1 factory box in my 64 Dart, which works great - light car. Firmfeel has the 16:1 chucks to go in the stock box and they build a nice unit. 20:1 stock box in my 68 Dart - very enjoyable. I am about to put 20:1 in my 62 Valiant. I like 15" steering wheels personally.

Lou

_________________
"You mean you still have a Slant 6 in that thing?"


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:00 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 5:53 am
Posts: 742
Location: Crestline, CA
Car Model:
Image

So, this is why I am asking about a 16:1 manual box.

To start, I am going to get this up and running with my old and tired 24:1 box, but assuming all is well, I will want something that steers a bit faster.

If this works, steering effort will not be a problem.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:02 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23566
Location: North America
Car Model:
Electric power steer, eh? Interesting. Lettuce know how it works out.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:15 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 5:53 am
Posts: 742
Location: Crestline, CA
Car Model:
It is a bit of an experiment, and I will be pleased to report the results.

Part of why I had the Barracuda parked in the garage was due to several seemingly unsolvable problems.

So, I am coming back to wrenching with a willingness to try new ideas.

Thanks

Greg


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:16 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 5:53 am
Posts: 742
Location: Crestline, CA
Car Model:
Dan-o wrote:
Or........

If you are looking for something a little more lively and are looking to reduce the weight of your front end, there are aluminium 16:1 factory boxes. Firm Feel did have new gears for them back in the day, dunno about anymore. We've done a couple of cars (one with electronic steering assist built inline) with them and enjoyed them quite a bit with aggressive/modern steering settings (-1* Camber 7-9* Caster with just a touch of toe and modern tires of 275 aspect and up) They are a great vendor and know their stuff.
Borgeson has come out with 14.7:1 Power boxes that are 7lbs lighter than the stock power boxes and quite a few of us have quickened them up with Q/R arms as well, netting a great driving package.

I personally have no experience with PST, or Flaming River outside of their steering columns, which are pretty good.


Dan-o, where in AZ are you at? I am in beautiful Gilbert


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:50 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:25 am
Posts: 594
Location: Springtucky OR
Car Model:
Currently working out some electric power assist for my slant powered S10.
It's steering through a 3 turns lock to lock rack and pinion from an Intrepid.
Cheap, simple and much tidier setup than hydraulics.


Image

_________________
--> Check out my FI Turbo build <--
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:46 am 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
Posts: 6803
Location: IRWIN PA
Car Model:
I had bought one of these for the Grüne Hölle Dart a few years back.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 35&jsn=439

Installed it last year. Have tightened the center adjustment maybe 3-4 times so far. Have ~3000 Miles.. Spirited mountain driving / Highway driving and 1 AutoX on the box so far. Was the cheapest of the bunch but If you are set on the 16:1 I would spring for Firm feel or PST.



I like the 16:1 Box... Typical dudes want everything so easy that they are not willing to use some muscle when they park. It's my gym Membership... Besides I drive more than park.

Greg

_________________
Greg Ondayko
http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:35 am 
Offline
EFI Slant 6

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 7:32 pm
Posts: 281
Location: AZ
Car Model:
gmader wrote:
Dan-o, where in AZ are you at? I am in beautiful Gilbert


Was in Yuma when I owned my own shop, up in NorCal these days building prototype UAV's for NASA.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:13 am 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:25 pm
Posts: 5488
Location: Downeast Maine
Car Model:
This retro-fit electric steering assist concept applied to an A body is quite interesting. However I'm not sure where the room comes from under a stock dashboard stuffed with wire, clutch & brake brackets, and other errata to house such a device device.

Retro fitting a power rack to an S 10 is also interesting as well. Not sure if such a conversion into an A body is achievable without bump steer problems could be easily cobbled. I'm no fabricator, and don't have access to a pile of old used parts for experimental fitment for such a conversion. If such a conversion could be done reasonably easily with inexpensive parts, that would be a great upgrade to eliminate the factory Christ-Craft feel steering all pee-rack & pinion equipped vehicles have.

For those out there with bottomless pockets, the rage seams to be to plunk an old body atop a full custom built frame fitted with modern suspension, high powered engines & 8 speed transmissions capable of great 1/4 mile times, handling, stopping and high fuel mileage.

What was I thinking; probably for the same dough, one could pick up new or a slightly used Hell Cat, and tape over the side markers for that same driving experience.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:20 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:52 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Car Model:
Some cars used an electric hydraulic pump but those use a lot of amps if you don't have a controller that senses steering wheel angle changes/vehicle speed. I think these are mostly obsolete now. One of the Toyota MR2 models did that. The pump pressure also varied according to vehicle speed so that it pumped the most pressure at parking speeds. I believe some Ford/Volvo electric power steering pump is common, but it has a reputation of being noisy. You can find these in salvage yards : https://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/volvo- ... tails.html

If you're an electronics hacker you might find a sensor that can track steering wheel input. Also, as the GPS sender units are cheap, I thought that it could calculate vehicle speed. An Arduino is sufficient to do the computer work. When the vehicle is parked or at a stop light, the pump would be off. There might not be much to this controller, probably could sell them for quite a bit. I might actually look into this myself as I'm that kind of nerd.

https://amzn.to/31Zpqnv


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:41 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:52 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Car Model:
I think only the GPS could be used to control the pressure by speed. I don't know how the Volvo system worked. I've read that the pumps can draw up to 80 amps - that number might be incorrect as its pretty high. There are also 12v hydraulic pumps that can be repurposed


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:31 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:44 pm
Posts: 779
Location: New England
Car Model:
Greg Ondayko wrote:
I had bought one of these for the Grüne Hölle Dart a few years back.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 35&jsn=439

Installed it last year. Have tightened the center adjustment maybe 3-4 times so far. Have ~3000 Miles.. Spirited mountain driving / Highway driving and 1 AutoX on the box so far. Was the cheapest of the bunch but If you are set on the 16:1 I would spring for Firm feel or PST.



I like the 16:1 Box... Typical dudes want everything so easy that they are not willing to use some muscle when they park. It's my gym Membership... Besides I drive more than park.

Greg

I agree, as a large American blue collar worker, 16:1 has a great road feel and is not unparkable. I have a Mopar 16:1 in my 340 car, and a Flaming River in my slant car.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC-07:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited