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 Post subject: Here we go again!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:03 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Prescott Valley Az
Car Model:
Well got my motor back late(missed Vegas again)Put everything on and made sure the vales were closed and set the dist. in on zero with the balancer.Fired up the car to break in the cam and sounded not good.The timing was way retarded (like me)But had to run it in because I have always been told once you start it for the first time not to shut it down if possible or you'll wreck the cam.Retourqued the head,set the valves and checked the timing problem.Had to put the rotor in one tooth ahead to get the timing mark to line up.Drove the car to the alignment shop and it ran bad,breaking up and loading up.Got it home and went through the carb,changed the power valve,jets and cleaned and checked it out.Reset the acc. pump arm.Pulled the dist. and checked that out as well.I put the bypass plug on the Hyfire box and tried it again just using the Protronix unit only.Still not running right and had to have the dist. put in one tooth ahead of where #1 was on the balancer.The cam was degreed in by the first motor shop and staked the lower gear and balancer.The motor ran great until loosing oil.I called the motor shop who just rebuilt it (the second time)and he said he put it on the old mark.It runs like the cam is off to me.I took it all apart last night and found moisture in the valve cover and in the timing cover ( ok it was foam in the timing cover)I did notice that one of the bolts in the timing cover let water out when I removed it?I there one that goes into a coolant passage?There was no thread sealant on this bolt and I'm wondering if that is why I get moisture in my valve cover.Also when puting the motor on #1 with the valves in the closed/overlap position the dots on the timing gears are across from each other?It's a Schnider cam and Roll Master Timing set and Romac balancer.When I put the dots together like it shows in the book as soon as I start to rotate the engine there is valve action.That don't make sense to me.I posted a few photos on flickr.com/photos/emptypockets/
I'm at a loss.I'll read the thread on degreeing in a cam and proably order a degree wheel and kit and check it myself.The motor shop wasn't very helpfull so I'm all done doing business with them.I asked him why he didn't check it after finding 2 under sized rods and 5 lifters that were diffrent.It's not like I told him to do it bare bones.Like I told him I had $10,000.00 tied up under the hood of this car and I just wanted it right.As always I know I'll get the input from you guys to send me down the right path. :cry:

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SOOOOO much money spent and I keep gettin' told that I could have had a V-8


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:26 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: SW Washington
Car Model: Fiat 500e
If you line the marks on the timing sprockets toward each other that is TDC firing for #6. #1 is also on TDC at this point, but on TDC on the exhaust stroke. That's just how the timing gears are marked.

It's not difficult to put in the cam sprocket one tooth off. I did when I started degreeing the cam for my latest engine, but figured it out right away when the intake centerline was way off.

If there is a problem when you fire the engine shut it down. One thing you can and should be prepared to do while the engine is running is adjust the ignition timing.

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Joshua


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:36 am 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
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Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 2432
Location: East Arkansas
Car Model:
OUCH
Man Im SOOO sorry you are getting the run around. I would invest in a Degree Wheel asap. Especially with a Hi Po motor ALWAYS degree your cam.
I even look at it if a shop does it.
BTW those pistons are now in a mill. :D
I really hope you get this sorted out soon. :D
Frank

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:17 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Prescott Valley Az
Car Model:
Well upon closer inspection the second motor shop lined up the original timing marks and not the one that was punched on the lower gear so that explains why it ran poorly.I put the cam to the correct marks and reassembled it.I sure hope the timing cover don't leak.Looks like you need to remove the oil pan to put it together properly.I had to cut the nipples off the lower seal to install the cover,I couldn't get them through the holes and I made sure to apply thread sealant to the bolt taht came out of the hole with water.If I have to pull this thing out again its going to Doc for corrections!Going to try it agaiin today,hope it works out. :cry:

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SOOOOO much money spent and I keep gettin' told that I could have had a V-8


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:25 am 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:42 am
Posts: 8488
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Car Model: More cars than sense...
Most of us have been through similar situations. Hang in there! Think about how much you're learning each time you have to figure things like this out. The more blood, sweat and tears you invest the more you'll appreciate the final product.

It sounds like you're on the right track. Keep us posted.

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Rob

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 Post subject: Here we go again
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:46 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Prescott Valley Az
Car Model:
Well after putting everything back together I fired the thing up,ran better but something is still way wrong.Drained the coolant and took it all back apart.There's a performance shop up the road from me that just opened and he said $75.00 to degree the cam in and he just installed a new chassis dyno.Seemed like a nice guy and knowledgable seemed to know a lot about nitrous,performace engines.Shop was very clean,well orginzed and proper tools.Brought the car and cam card up and it ended up on the marks from the original builder.Brought the car home and now decided to look at everything with a very critical eye.On the second build I replaced the Mallory dual points with a pertronix unit.I took the distributor completely apart to make sure nothing was hanging up and upon reassembly (you're gonna love this) looking at the rotor before installing it I noticed it had 8 slots in it (I only got 6 cylinders)!They sent me the wrong ROTOR.everthing dropped together in the distributor so I never thought to look at the rotor,it went right on and fit the cap.So I have had the front of the motor apart 2 times (2 synthetic oil changes$$$$) and lost a lot of sleep.The correct rotor will be here tomorrow,I'm going to have to take the day off and wait for Fed Ex to get here and try it again.I can't beleive that I missed that. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

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SOOOOO much money spent and I keep gettin' told that I could have had a V-8


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:30 am
Posts: 945
Location: Tiegerpoort, Pretoria, South Africa
Car Model:
...Bliksem - cant translate to english in case you think me rude :D

That was one cruel mistake they made :shock:

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Fanie Gerber
It's never junk, it's just a part you're not currently using

http://www.valiant50.co.za
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 Post subject: Re: Here we go again
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:02 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Moderator
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:27 pm
Posts: 13367
Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model: 68 Valiant
emptypockett wrote:
On the second build I replaced the Mallory dual points with a pertronix unit.I took the distributor completely apart to make sure nothing was hanging up and upon reassembly (you're gonna love this) looking at the rotor before installing it I noticed it had 8 slots in it (I only got 6 cylinders)!They sent me the wrong ROTOR.everthing dropped together in the distributor so I never thought to look at the rotor,it went right on and fit the cap.So I have had the front of the motor apart 2 times (2 synthetic oil changes$$$$) and lost a lot of sleep.The correct rotor will be here tomorrow,I'm going to have to take the day off and wait for Fed Ex to get here and try it again.I can't beleive that I missed that. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:


We used to have that happen with the Perlux units we used at Hyster. The housing was the same for 4 and 6 cylinder Continentals, and they would toss in a 6 cylinder reluctor in the 4 cylinder distributors. It became easier to catch after the first one. :?

We had an "ACE" mechanic take the head off the motor to look for a blown head gasket with one of them. He would not believe me when I was telling him it was in the dizzy. :shock:

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