Hey All,
Just got a NEW NAPA Fuel Pump for Lorrie Van Haul, a 1967 Dodge P200 Postal Van with a 225 Slant Six Engine.

Need to know what the stroke of the Lever should be. The Lever on this NEW Fuel Pump is only about 1/4". It just seems to click back and forth, but there is no discernible pumping action.

When pushing on the Lever, there is no suction or pressure evident at either port.

I don't want to install it and have it bust something if it is not right.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

the New sealed fuel pumps are different than the rebuildable ones. Stiff? You can't really move them through by hand, but they do work.

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1964 Dart GT

Hey Mr. D,
Thanks for the response.

The situation here is that I don't even know that what is wrong is the Fuel Pump!

Lorrie has been doing just wonderfully for the past couple of months. She was regaining my confidence in her with the way she was performing.

Then we were on the way home from the Post Office last Friday, going up an ever so slight incline and of a sudden Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six just quit running.

Coasted off to the side of the mildly cambered road and came to a stop with a very slight lean to the right. Tried to restart but all she would do was crank. At first it felt like she wasn't getting any fire. Checked all the Fuses in the Start/Run/Charge system and they were fine.

Checked the Fuel Level in the Gas Tank. The Gauge said that there was about 1/8th of a tank. But in checking everything over, it was noticed that there was no fuel in the Fuel Filter. Got out the two gallon Gas Can and put a little bit in the Carburetor and Lorrie started right up and ran till the prime was gone and quit. Still there was no gas in the Fuel Filter. Concluded that there was nothing wrong with the Electrical. That the problem was in the Fuel System.

Knowing that the Fuel Pickup Tube in the Gas Tank is near the left front of the tank, I thought that maybe going up the slight incline and the road camber having Lorrie leaning to starboard (right), that maybe, just maybe there wasn't enough fuel in the tank to keep the Fuel Pickup Tube immersed, so put about a gallon of gas in the Fuel Tank, and tried to restart, but she just wouldn't. That was when I surmised that the problem was the Fuel Pump.

Then one of the guys here in town saw us and stopped to see if he could help. He towed Lorrie back home where she was parked overnight. I was just nonplussed and somewhat put off by what had happened and so I just let her sit till the next morning.

Came in and called NAPA and ordered a NEW Fuel Pump. It was to be in on Saturday morning. Going to cost $22.01.

Called NAPA the next morning and sure enough, they had the NEW Fuel Pump, but I had no way to get it. Gave a check for the amount to my neighbor's wife and she would pick it up on Monday and deliver it here Monday evening on her way home from work.

Went out on Saturday morning with the intention of removing the OLD Fuel Pump to be ready to install the NEW one when it arrived. But before doing anything, gave Lorrie one more try to start. She was parked on the driveway leaning ever so slightly to the left. Turned on the Run Switch, activated the Start Switch, gas came gushing up into the Fuel Filter and Lorrie started right up!

So now am thinking that maybe the Fuel Gauge is showing an 1/8th tank which is not all that accurate. Put in the other gallon of Gas from the Gas Can. The Fuel Gauge now showed about 3/16th of a tank.

So Lorrie would Start and Run. Am thinking a number of things that this situation could be. 1. Inaccurate Fuel Gauge and Lorrie just ran out of gas. 2. Something is blocking the Fuel Pickup Tube. 3. Fuel Pump is intermittent (maybe a stuck check valve).

So the plan became: Get the NEW Fuel Pump on Monday evening. Put it in Lorrie's storage area. Then on Tuesday (today) see if Lorrie will take me to the Bank to get Gas money. Then go fill up Lorrie's Gas Tank, and the two and the five gallon Gas Cans. If Lorrie does the same thing then, will change out the Fuel Pump wherever she stalls (it's a simple procedure on Lorrie, takes about twenty minutes).

So the Fuel Pump gets here Monday evening (yesterday) and it just doesn't "feel" right. The Lever moves about 1/4". No "pumping" feel. Compared it to a Fuel Pump from Ms. American's (Ford Galaxie) Fuel Pump which has about 1/2" stroke and "feels" like it is pumping. And thus my question here at the Slant Six Forum.



YES! VERY!



Well, this morning will tell if Lorrie will work. Am going to start her up and go to the Bank and then to the Conoco for Gas. She may do alright. OR she may once again stall. Am apprehensive about this NEW Fuel Pump.

If Lorrie stalls with a full tank of gas, the possible reasons will still be: Something blocking the Pickup Tube or an intermittent malfunctioning of the Fuel Pump. If she stalls, am going to rock her back and forth (left and right) to see if that might clear whatever is blocking the Pickup Tube (if that's even the problem). If THAT doesn't do anything, then am thinking of installing the NEW Fuel Pump.

Am hoping that the problem was the Fuel Gauge showing gas in the Fuel Tank when in reality Lorrie was just out of gas exacerbated by the slight incline and the road camber.

The question that I posted was: "What is the stroke of the Fuel Pump Lever?" Have searched and searched for that information and have found absolutely no mention of it anywhere on the WWW. Would still like to know the answer.

Anyway, will let you know what happens today. Everything may be fine, or it may not. Will just have to wait and see.
What will be will be.
Time will tell.
Be well.
JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Is the pump on Lorrie the original pump (rebuildable)?
I would pull the sending unit and check the filter on the tank end, blow out the fuel lines, just to be on the safe side.
Keep an eye on the oil level!
I do not know the specs on the sealed fuel pumps(Airtex type), but I do remember thinking the same thing about the arm movement range. I put one on while I rebuilt the old carter pump that came with the car.(it had much more range of movement)
20 minutes to change the pump? (Lucky Dog) I'd be cussing for 20 minutes while looking for the right socket and wrench set-up to change my pump!

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1964 Dart GT

Hey Mr. D,
How can one tell if it's rebuildable or not?



Oh jeeze. Dropping the Fuel Tank to pull the sending unit is a major operation.



There is no filter on the Fuel Tank end of the Fuel Line. There hasn't been one since Lorrie has been with me (since 1975).



That can be easily done as far as the Rubber Hose from the Hard Line from the Gas Tank. But not from the Rubber Hose that is connected to the Fuel Pump.



That was one of the first things that was checked. The Fuel Pump is NOT putting Gasoline into the Oil Pan.



Alright. I'm feeling a bit better about this NEW Fuel Pump now.



It's just a matter of sliding under the Front End, loosening the Hose Clamp holding the Rubber Hose to the Hard Line from the Gas Tank, removing the hose from the Hard Line. Then unscrewing the Fitting on the Hard Line that goes to the Carburetor which is attached to the Fuel Pump. Then taking out the two Bolts that hold the Pump to the Block, and the Fuel Pump just comes right out.

To install the NEW Fuel Pump, the Rubber Hose is taken off the OLD Fuel Pump and put onto the NEW one. The NEW unit is then bolted to the Block. The Rubber Hose fitted to the Hard Line from the Fuel Tank, and the Clamp is tightened. Then the Fitting is screwed into the Out Port of the NEW Fuel Pump and the job is finished. There's nothing in the way that would make it difficult to reach the Fuel Pump.



Everything to do the deed is in the Metrinch Tool Set. Are you familiar with "Metrinch"?

Anyway, am going to get ready to go. Will go to the nearest Gas Station and I have $5.95 in my pocket. Am going to get the amount of gas that THAT will buy. Then am heading for the Bank to get $100.00. Am going to then go on to the Conoco and fill Lorrie up along with a 2 gallon Gas Can and a 5 gallon Gas Can. Will then see if Lorrie will make it home without incident. If she does then am just going to see if maybe she was just out of Gas on Friday.

Well keep you updated.

Thanks again for the response.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

SEALED



REBUILDABLE

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1964 Dart GT

Sounds to me like you just ran out of gas. I think your suspicion about the road grade and tilt putting the fuel away fro the pickup is correct.

1/4 inch sounds about right for the stroke length on a slant six fuel pump. I have never gotten out a ruler and measured it, but the stroke is very short. I can work the pump by hand, but it isn't easy. Remember, the pump is driver by a lobe on the cam, and the cam fuel pump lbe isn't very tall.

The easy solution here is to just fill up before the gauge gets down to the 1/8 tank level. My 89 Ford van has dual tanks and I always treat 1/8 full as the "E" line and switch tanks. That way I know I might have a bit in reserve if the need arises. The gauges aren't 100% accurate. They sit on full for a long time before they quickly nose-dive to empty. Thems the breaks with older vehicles.

Hey Mr. D,
Both the OLD Fuel Pump and the NEW Fuel Pump are the "Sealed" type.

Anyway, watch for the update.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Reed,
Long time since we last talked. It's nice to see you. How have you been? Haven't posted much for a couple of reasons. First, Lorrie has been doing just spectacularly. Second, have been working my tail off on the latest book. Am at Chapter Forty-Eight and it is just about finished. All that's left to do is write the "query letter" to the Agent/Publisher and write the Chapter-by-Chapter Synopsis which gets sent if the "query letter" sparks enough interest for the Agent/Publisher to request the Synopisis. If the Synopsis sparks enough interest, they will request the manuscript. Will just have to wait and see.



After what happened this morning, I think you're right.



After what happened this morning, I think you're right.



Alright. So after what happened this morning, the NEW Fuel Pump is just a "reserve" part. Lorrie now has a "reserve" Alternator, a "reserve" Oil Pump, and a "reserve" Fuel Pump. If this keeps up, it won't be all that long before we'll be able to build another vehicle!



That's the main thing that I wanted to know. Maybe someone has a 225 Slant Six Cam somewhere and that measurement could be made. It would be a first on the Internet.



Live and learn. Am still learning stuff about my Lorrie after thirty-nine years!



Am going to do just that. Plus am carrying an extra two gallons in a Gas Can.



I hear THAT! Same way with this NEW StewartWarner Fuel Gauge and Sender.



Well, read this morning's update. This is just plain NUTZ!

Anyway, thanks for response. Was hoping to hear from you.

Trust that you are well as we head into Spring (finally).

Take care.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Alright, this is just crazy!

Lorrie started right up this morning. Went to HWY190. Turned right on 190 and the Engine died! BUT, it started right back up.

Went to the Bank. Got $75.00. Went on to the Conoco. Filled Lorrie up. It took 14.9 gallons. Her tank only holds 13!

Also filled the 5 Gallon Gas Can and the 2 Gallon Gas Can. All that took EXACTLY $65.00!

Got in turned the Fuel Gauge to ON. Permit me to explain this. I haven't been able to find a suitable electric source in the Run Circuitry because the Fuel Gauge is Grounded and any Ground in the Run Circuit fritzes the Electronic Voltage Regulator. SO have put the Fuel Gauge on a separate circuit with a Switch. And the Switch is left OFF except when checking it.

So the Fuel Tank was FULL. The Fuel Gauge was OFF. It was sitting at Zero before it was turned ON. After turning it ON, it went up to the ONE QUARTER mark. It wouldn't go any further.

Well, I knew I had a full tank of Gas. Drove home. Everything is fine with the way Lorrie is running. She is a little hesitant at the Acceleration Pump but wasn't totally warmed up. Feathering the Acceleration Pedal makes her go alright. Got home, parked her. Fuel Gauge was still on ONE QUARTER mark.

Turned the Switch to the Fuel Gauge to the OFF position and the Needle immediately went to the FULL mark!

Turned it back ON and it goes down to half way between the FULL mark and the THREE QUARTERS mark which would be seven-eighths of a tank.

Turned it back OFF and the needle went to the FULL mark.

Weird!

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with Lorrie except for the weird Fuel Gauge.

Now permit me to describe what happens with the Fuel Gauge as the Fuel in the Tank is used. In the OFF position, the Needle stays where the Needle is when the Switch to the Fuel Gauge is in the ON position. It stays like that until there is only a quarter of a tank of gas left. When it gets to the ONE QUARTER mark, The Needle goes to ZERO when the Switch is OFF and the Needle shows ONE QUARTER with the Switch in the ON position.

When the Sending Unit was delivered, there was a note with it saying that it would do strange stuff when not being supplied with electricity, but that when it was supplied with current it would register properly.

Well, so far... It is more accurate WITHOUT current than it is WITH current.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with Lorrie's Fuel Pump. She was just out of gas.

Live and learn.

Hope you all are well.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hello JC! I am doing well. Interesting you mention query letters and synopses. I have been working on getting into writing (fiction and copywriting) for the last year or so. It is slow going, but I subscribe to Writer's Digest and I am in the middle of a copywriting course. Fingers crossed than someday I can make a living writing for fun.

Hmmmm. Sound like you have an electrical issue somewhere in the fuel gauge or sending unit circuits. I din't have much to ofer without being able to see how your system is wired and suggesting you check all grounds (including the fuel level sending unit). Again, the easy (but annoying) solution is to just carry a gas can with you. Maybe get one of those snazzy jerry-can mounts for the back of Lorrie.

I have several loose slant cams and a micrometer. I will try and remember to measure the fuel pump lobe for you.

Spare parts are always good to have around. I have loads of them.

$65 isn't bad for a fill up. My Ford van holds about 36 gallons, and at $3.90 per gallon for regular I rarely get change from a $100 when I fill up. My daily driver is a 99 Lincoln Town Car that has to use premium. Premium is now $4.20+ per gallon where I live, so even though the Lincoln only holds 19 gallons of gas it also usually costs almost $100 to fill. Neither vehicle gets better than 16 MPG, either. I have a Fred Meyer rewards card that lets me get an up to $1.00 per gallon discount when I buy gas from Fred Meyer. I usually do.

Now that summer is here I will be riding my bike more. I am also looking into an electric bike conversion kit for a spare Schwinn cruiser that I have.

Hey Reed,
Glad to hear it. I too seem to be hanging in here.



That's GREAT. I was a copy-writer at a number of ad agencies including my own. It's a fun thing to do. This book that is in the works is probably the best one to date, which means that I'm still improving!



I just finished ghost writing an article for a fellow here in town that has been published on a nostalgia hot rod webpage. He owns a vehicle called the "Green Bean". It was a national drag racing champion some years ago when the NHRA Nationals were held at Caddo Mills. It is a 1939 Mercury with a Chevrolet 350 Engine.



Reed, I have been through that circuitry over and over and over again. It is EXACTLY the way it is supposed to be except for being hooked to the Run Circuit. BUT, that shouldn't make any difference since it is still getting 12 Volt when the Switch is ON.



Will run through it again, but don't expect to find anything amiss.



There's a place for the two-gallon Gas Can that fastens it to the left rear wheel well. Easy to get to. The problem last Friday was that some of the gas in the two gallon container had been used to fuel up the Craftsman Riding Lawn Tractor, and there wasn't a full two gallons in it.



That would be GREAT. Not everyone knows what that measurement is.



They seem to be accumulating here too.



Well, that was for a fill up AND a 5 gallon container AND a 2 gallon container.



Reed, my father used to own a Mohawk service station in Ontario, California. I remember when he was selling gas for $0.17 a gallon! That was back in 1947. And if you think it's bad paying $4.20 a gallon, I'm paying $4.39 a gallon for MILK! And paint thinner, lacquer thinner, xylol, and acetone are all up in the $14.00 to $20.00 a gallon range.



Last time I checked Lorrie's mileage, it was at about 10 MPG. Fortunately I don't drive all that much Go to town maybe three times in two weeks which is about seven miles round trip. And once a month to Livingston which is a thirty mile round trip.



That's the way to go. Forty MPPBAJS (miles per peanut butter and jelly sandwich)!

HEY! All of a sudden the font size changed! What's up with THAT I wonder?

Anyway, hope you are well. Am going to go have something to eat and then get back to work on the book.

Hang in there.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

OK- I can't tell you what the max stroke is on a slant six fuel pump, but I can tell you the lift of the fuel pump cam lobe.

The fuel pump lobe is a perfect circle that is 1.66 inches in diameter. The core camshaft "shaft" diameter is 1 inch. That leaves .66 inches of lobe diameter for the fuel pump arm to ride on and be actuated by.

The fuel pump lobe is offset on the camshaft. The "high" side lobe surface is .46 inches from the side of the central cam shaft, and the "low" side lobe surface is .21 inches from the side of the central cam shaft.

***Quick self check- .46 + .21 = .67, a "good enough for government work" match on the leftover lobe lift available. My calculations and measuring method seem to be fairly accurate.***

So, .46 -.21 =.25 inches of offset of the lobe in relation to the cental shaft. That means there is .25 inches of actual lobe lift on the slant six fuel pump cam lobe.

So your estimate of a 1/4 inch stroke looks pretty darn close.

I may not be too bright , but I am pretty sure it holds 14.9 gallons..

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

does a 10 gallon hat really hold 10 gallons?

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1964 Dart GT