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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:17 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model: 1966 Dodge Dart
'66 Dart with the stock 904.

I had the first two splined parts seated correctly, but didn't have the last one seated to get the torque converter in the final half inch - outside shaft to front pump. And I tried to tighten the transmission to the engine like this. There was a rather nasty thunk and then things seemed to bolt together a bit more easily - but the converter wasn't back far enough to line up with the flexplate, and wouldn't turn. I pulled the transmission to see what was wrong. The torque converter spun reasonably well but would not move backward or forward until I used two pry bars on opposite sides to push it out.

I'm not seeing any damage to the torque converter or transmission splines, and I was able to get the converter back in to what appears to be the correct spot. It turns without feeling like it's grinding, sticking, or hitting spots with unusual friction.

Is it likely I've damaged the pump? If so, what parts are likely to need replacing?

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
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Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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There is a good chance you broke the lugs on the pump. If you did you will need to replace the pump. Did you run the engine ? If you did, there is a good chance you got metal filings into the trans. Carefully inspect the pump drive on the converter, to make sure you didn't crack it.

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65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:43 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:03 pm
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Location: IRWIN PA
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Oh no.

The only real way to know if you damaged the pump lug is to pull the pump out of the trans and take the pump apart.

If possible stash another trans in there.


I had a similar issue years ago with my '69 dart..
Manual trans. Clutch disc not splined to the input shaft.

Brand new clutch disc was junk.. as i tightened it all up I smashed the hell outta that new clutch disc.

Sorry buddy.

Greg

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:16 pm 
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Guru
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:22 am
Posts: 3739
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Car Model: Many Darts and a Dacuda
As noted above, the front pump's impeller "drive lugs" are likely damaged or broken-off completely.

With the engine removed you can look past the transmission's front seal with a bright light to see if the lugs are still there. (there are 2 lugs)
But it is best to pull the pump out and rebuild it... to be sure everything is OK inside.
DD
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:43 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model: 1966 Dodge Dart
Thanks to everyone who responded! I did not get far enough to try to start the engine. So I'm going to get the pump out and have a closer look at it.

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:48 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model: 1966 Dodge Dart
Dumb question... which way do I turn the adjustment screw to tighten the kickdown band to get the pump out?

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:35 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model: 1966 Dodge Dart
Got to the point where I'm supposed to slide hammer the two bolts to get the pump out. Need to figure out how I'm going to get the bolts on the end of the slide hammer I have, or find an alternate tool...

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:06 pm 
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MadScientistMatt wrote:
Dumb question... which way do I turn the adjustment screw to tighten the kickdown band to get the pump out?

Righty/thighty-lefty loosey

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:13 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: IRWIN PA
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Yes Charrlie is Right - standard threads with a locknut.

I would think you want to Loosen the band adjustment screw to be able to rotate the band Freely around the Drum as the pump comes out.


Greg

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:37 pm 
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Greg Ondayko wrote:
Yes Charrlie is Right - standard threads with a locknut.

I would think you want to Loosen the band adjustment screw to be able to rotate the band Freely around the Drum as the pump comes out.


Greg

Not correct. loosen the lock nut, and tighten the screw. Then the band will hold all the internals in place, while removing the pump. If i remember correctly, there is a washer on the part of the pump that goes into the drum. Make sure this is in place when reinstalling the pump. Also it is much easier to install the pump, if you use a couple of "guide studs", in the mounting holes.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:22 am
Posts: 3739
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Car Model: Many Darts and a Dacuda
Be sure to replace the front pump bushing and the front seal while you have the pump apart... now is the time.
FYI, The 904 front pump has 2 halves that need to be carefully aligned and held, while the bolts are being tightened. (see the FSM)
DD


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:12 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model: 1966 Dodge Dart
Thanks everyone! I wasn't sure if tightening the screw tightened the band or not as the FSM was a little unclear, but when I started adjusting it was pretty clear which way was looser and which was tighter. I'm going to see if I can jury-rig a puller tool out of some square tubing.

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:12 am 
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Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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Doctor Dodge wrote:
Be sure to replace the front pump bushing and the front seal while you have the pump apart... now is the time.
FYI, The 904 front pump has 2 halves that need to be carefully aligned and held, while the bolts are being tightened. (see the FSM)
DD

Agreed.
I usually install the pump backwards, without the large "O" ring, in an empty trans case, then tighten the bolts. But a large "worm" clamp around the pump will also work..

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:21 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: IRWIN PA
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Thanks for setting me straight Charrlie,

I suppose I was thinking of pulling all of the front guts out with the pump which is not needed in this situation.


Greg

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:26 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model: 1966 Dodge Dart
I've thrown together a pulling tool for the pump.

Image

I've dubbed it the Improvised Extraction Device, so I don't forget it is sketchy and carries a risk of exploding. Will need a new set of bolts as the ones on there aren't long enough to clear the input shaft.

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project


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