I want to run fuel injection on the slant in my truck, but I also want to keep the EGR, catalytic converter, and air injection. Do the big aftermarket EFI systems have provisions for those emissiosn systems? megasquirt? Holley? FAST? I haven't ever seen any mention of emissions system provisions with the aftermarket EFI systems.

Its a huge can of worms with enormous liability and legality issues , and why nobody wants to touch ii.

Not saying it can't be done.

I assume your truck or motor is post 63?

Truck motor is a 76, but I have other heads to play with. The EFI control system I am currently planning on using is based on the factory Ford late 80s to early 2000s mass sequential EFI. It has a full capability to control whatever emissions systems you want. EGR, air injection, whatever. I could be convinced to try a different system, but if no other system offers the capability to run emissions devices, then I will stick with what I have.

Reed, IIRC the egr valve on the slant in the 83 D150 was engine vacuum controlled. There was a secondary temperature sensing valve in system that prevented operation of the egr valve until the engine was at normal operating temperature.
The air injection was 100% mechanical and operated all the time the engine was running.
Neither had an electrical interface. As such I believe that if one wanted to maintain an egr and an air injection system on an engine like the 83 slant after installing FI, they would simply leave the existing system in place.
The catalytic converter will be happier on a FI system than it was behind a carburetor.
However, how air injection may affect the operation / calibration of a critical sensor in a FI system like the O2 sensor will need to be considered. The purpose of air injection is to add oxygen to combust gasoline that did not burn in cylinder. A tuned FI system should meter the fuel much better than a carburetor so there should not be fuel left over in the tail pipe to combust. Without fuel to combust the AF meter may see the injected air as excess / left over air and initiate faulty corrections when in closed loop. Maybe that is why modern OE FI systems have two O2 sensors, one ahead of the converter and one post.
To be able to run the Ford FI system that incorporates air injection and egr I would think that you will need to also adapt the Ford air injection pump and lines and egr valve to your slant motor.

_________________
Doo Ron Ron and the Duke of Earl are friends of mine.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX8Nj8ABEI8

That is my plan. The Ford "Thermactor" air injection system functions much like the slant six air injection system. A series of vacuum controlled valves directing where air from the air pump is directed. The valves are a combination of electrically controlled solenoids and coolant controlled valves. The Ford system is fully computer controlld and the factory EFI system can be fully hacked and reconfigured to work on any engine. From what I can tell so far, the aftermarket system that "hacks" the factory Ford system allows one to turn the EGR and air injection systems on or off. So the computer control is a binary "YES/NO" control, but leaving it enabled would allow one to maintain the emissions controls.

I need to researhc the finer points more. I was just wondering if any other aftermarket FI system had provisions for emissions control.

Many of those systems are very adaptable and have ongoing firmware updates that enable additional functions.
It may be best for you to contact the tech departments at MegaSquirt, Holley, FI Tech, and other major players directly and inquire on their products current and near term capabilities concerning emissions controls.

If you do so, post back what you find. It would be interesting.

_________________
Doo Ron Ron and the Duke of Earl are friends of mine.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX8Nj8ABEI8

Very good point about injecting air at the right location.

At least for OBD-II, the reason for two O2 sensors is to tell the computer whether the Cat is functioning properly. Driver gets earliest possible warning of Cat failure. Another side benefit: the computer can report the results to the emissions test people, without them even needing to hook up a sniffer.


Are you using QuarterHorse? TwEECer? Something else? Just curious -- I haven't tried any of 'em yet though I keep wanting to. Ford programmed Decel Fuel Cut Off into their systems except for the Mustang 5.0 version... it seems like a strange omission. Would like to turn that on, and also adjust the RPM point since it enables DFCO only above 1800 rpm. Many modern vehicles use a number more like 1100-1200, which seems plenty high to catch it from stalling on the way back down.

Tons of other OEM solutions are possible, some of which are documented. This thread shows a Bosch LH-Jetronic (Porsch, Saab, Volvo, etc.) being hacked into a Fiat in place of the L-Jet. Actually, he started by trying LH 2.2, then decided LH 2.4 gives more possibilities, then threw it all away and went a different direction with a totally modern drivetrain instead. But there's tons of documentation, for the curious.

If nothing else, seeing those challenges might convince you that you're very happy with the EEC-IV.....

- Erik

_________________
Lots of early Valiants and Barracudas have crossed my path.
Also a handful of other toys for variety now and then.

Most of that hang on crap like a smog pump ain't needed, remember K.I.S.S (keep it simple)

You're thinking of the original smog crap from the 1970s which was horrible, and people were absolutely correct that ripping it out made everything better. We've come lightyears since then, but opinions will not die. People who weren't even born then... yet they fully believe the stories are true.

By the late 1980s, most of that stuff actually is pretty simple, doesn't hamper performance in the slightest, and works astonishingly well. All ya gotta do is learn about it. Which none of us were born knowing... we all started from zero. Why would EFI and emissions be any different?

I recall being petrified that my new shiny EFI car would sputter at the side of the road and I wouldn't know how to fix it. So I took that as a challenge, and eventually it became unscary. At this point, I would never voluntarily return to the days of the temperamental carburetors I used to feel so comfortable with.

If we, the willingly educated, don't care about clean air to breathe, what hope does the rest of the planet have?

- Erik

_________________
Lots of early Valiants and Barracudas have crossed my path.

Also a handful of other toys for variety now and then.

I fully agree. I have used the TWEECER for about a decade and plan on using it on my truck when I finally get to building a fuel injected motor. The learning curve is steep, but I also would not want to return to the days of carburetors. The only carbureted vehicle I own any more is my old 76 D100, and it will get injected as soon as I can. Carburetors are simple, but inefficient. And clean air is a priority.

Yep, once you go to EFI, it is very hard to settle for carb tradeoffs and limited tuning. I should think about some modest emissions stuff. My two carb'ed cars (da Valiants) are on the short list for port EFI at least... All parts together for one and most for the other.

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines

Well, wish me luck. I am about to jump down a major EFI rabbit hole.

It isn't directly slant related, but I should learn a bunch of info that will help with a slant EFI conversion.

I have a 1990 Ramcharger with the TBI injection system. The 318 in the RC is tired and runs hot. I am going to be replacing the 318 with a 360 out of a 2000 Durango and keeping the factory 2000 Durango MPFI system. This means swapping over the 2000 PCM and wiring harness and fuel system, but I will gain OBDII and MPFI. It will make for an interesting, if nerve wracking, swap.

My son has an 89 ramcharger as well
We went and got it from Vegas and I drove that truck cross country all the way back to Chicago.
The TBI 360 that was in it remains the doggiest I have ever driven. I have fought that TBI on many Dodge trucks of that time frame. I hate it. Worse than even lean burn
. He found a 76 360 that got rebuilt, with a magnum head swap. And the TBI setup wound up in the trash.
Much better with the fresh engine and it's new carterbrock carb and mechanical fuel pump.
But he wanted more so that 76 360 got turned into a 408 with the same EQ Magnum heads and same aluminum 4 barrel intake and carb. He's still dialing in the timing and carb, the 408 is that fresh.
After fighting my 88 D100, my cousins 88 B250 van, and the kid's ramcharger plus his 90 3/4ton 4wd, I am DONE with the 88 to 91 TBI. Never again. If I ever own another, it will be either carb swapped, or complete magnum engine swapped like Reed is doing. They did put the magnum in the square body trucks the last 2 years they built that series of truck. I'm not 100% sure I'd sweat the OBD I vs II, but I would certainly consider doing a complete magnum swap as removed from a donor.
In fact that was the original plan for the volare, but after "only" putting magnum heads and a stock 360-2bbl cam into a 318 in an 83 D 250 that I had, I was amazed at the difference between the engine before and after the head swap even with a carb, that I lost some ambition for the efi part of the swap.the short block on that 318 was never touched.
That whole car has been on hold for far too long

As for controlling emissions equipment, you must determine what type of signal can be used to control them. The '70s era EGR valve was vacuum controlled through a Thermo-Valve Sensor (TVS). There was nothing electronic about it. Controlling it electronically can be done using a solenoid and a PWM signal from a controller. Solenoids are not fast acting. You may have to play around with the frequency setting to get good response from the solenoid. Air injection uses vacuum signals as well for upstream & dump actuation. They can be controlled with PWM solenoids the same as EGR. As already pointed out, if using a feedback O2 sensor, the AIR should be dumped downstream of the O2 to prevent artificial lean readings. You could also look into electronic EGR systems found on later model vehicles. It just takes a custom flange to get it to fit where you want to mount it.

I'm an advocate of EGR for certain applications. First I had to understand what it really is, what it is supposed to do, and what it does/did on production applications. For a look at just how good EGR can be, look at George Arlington Moore and his application of it (check US Patents 1,633,385 and 1,633,791; 1927). In conjunction with the EGR he jacked up the compression and advanced ignition timing. When the OEMs added EGR in the mid-1970's they lowered compression and retarded ignition timing. No wonder we learned to hate EGR!

_________________
Recognized by US Federal Courts as a Fuel Economy Expert!