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 Post subject: FITech Install
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:40 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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For you old-timers that guided me through tuning my Holley 390 back in 2008-9 it has been put to rest. RIP.

I have replaced it with a FITech 400 hp master kit included pump filters and fuel line. I just got back from a very short two mile test run, and I like how snappy it is off idle. I'm not too excited about the pump noise however. If I do this install again to another car I will spring for a FI Tank with internal pump, heck, maybe I'll swap one into the Dart next summer.

The unit is still learning, and what the seat of the pants indicated is it has a lot more get-up and go then what the old Holley ever dished out.

I'm going to try to run a few tanks of gas through it before winter hits which in Maine could be as soon as this coming Monday or two or three weeks after Thanksgiving... One never knows.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:51 pm 
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I got a chance to drive the Dart 35 miles this afternoon to let the self learn to do it's thing. The engine started ran up to about 1500 rpm for a few seconds, and throttled down to a 1000 rpm idle all in less than 10 seconds. After that the engine was very responsive to throttle tip in up to 4000 rpm at shift point. I didn't run past 4000 rpm, but did very the speed from 35 mph to 65 mph during the ride. I did notice that when letting off the throttle the car was not slowing down as quickly as it should.

Once back home I attended to the idle, and recalled there was an idle speed set screw that should have been adjusted by me when setting up the system. I adjusted the in park idle to 650 and all seems to be OK now. Over all the car is much more enjoyable to drive, needing very slight throttle inputs to get a result. No stumbling or flat spots, just smooth response every time.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:12 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: IRWIN PA
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Cool Stuff.

Good Luck with it.


You can prolly get that pump quieter with one of these..

or this..


Greg

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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:23 pm 
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Glad to hear it! I cannot remember anyone saying something so positive about a bolt-on EFI system, especially in the early stages of auto tuning. They must be getting better at programming these things...

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:40 am 
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Supercharged
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Lou,

The electrical portion of the install was simple in concept, a bit more difficult on my car as I had years ago modified the wiring harness. Some of those previous modifications were not stout enough to comply with the FITech's instructions which required some upgrades to charging portion of the harness. I had added a few relays to supply the previous carburetor's electric choke and O2 sensor's amperage requirements. Some of that was removed, and later reinstalled to accommodate the EFI equipment.

Modifying the existing fuel tank, which was about three years old and like new, entailed replacing a new 5/16" sending unit with a 3/8" unit that included a vent. I later discovered the venting provision of 3/8" sending unit was too small (1/4") to satisfy FITech's requirement for a return line. I than drilled that small vent out, welded in a length of 3/8" brake line which enabled easy attachment of a 18"-24" soft return line inside the tank to keep any air bubbles away from the fuel pick-up as dictated by FITech. It was hard to meet the "no greater than 3 foot distant" requirement for placement of the electric fuel pump to be located at or below the bottom level of the fuel tank. The pump location instructions in one instance dictated a 2 foot distance... My pump is at 42", affixed to the right-side "frame member" as it begins to arch up to accommodate axle travel. The pump is close and as low as I could get it in relation to the tank. At that location the south end of the pump is almost touching the right side rear muffler, which required designing a metal heat shield to keep the pump and related fuel and return lines cool. All the re-engineering took more time than bolting on the EFI unit and wiring it up.

There is another method of feeding fuel to the EFI unit via the low pressure factory fuel pump and line from the tank into a secondary small tank located within the engine compartment. That secondary tank contains a high pressure electric fuel pump and self contained return to feed the EFI unit. I considered this device, but could not figure out where to mount it on the passenger's side of engine compartment due to our slanted engine.

If I install another of these EFI systems I'll just get an EFI tank with pump and gauge float and return provisions. Than it just a mater of swapping out the tank and connecting two lines to the engine and electrical for the pump and fuel gauge.

Why did I chose FITech's up to 400Hp unit? Because they listed it would work on 150Hp to 400 Hp engines, and had four 55 gal/hr injectors. Holley Sniper on the other hand was not clear that it would support a low Hp engine, and listed having four 100 gal hr injectors... It seemed like over kill in the fuel delivery department.

The other thing I did not realize until the EFI unit was in hand is it is a progressive device where the first two butterflies crack open, and around 1/4 or little less throttle opening the second set chimes in and all four then open at the same rate.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:57 am 
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This sounds like a nice setup, Bill. 4X55 lbs = 220 lbs total is plenty, but not too much. 4X100 would be too much for sure. I have run external EFI pumps on the pass frame rail in probably the same location as yours with no real issues. I did "lose prime" once when I ran out of gas on an uphill and could not get it running with just 2-3 gals of fresh fuel in the tank. You should be fine.

Lou

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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:10 am 
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Lou:
Quote:
This sounds like a nice setup, Bill. 4X55 lbs = 220 lbs total is plenty, but not too much. 4X100 would be too much for sure.


Yup, I agree, 400 lbs is way too much for most Slants.

The last time I went for a drive, I gave it some WOT after pulling out on to a four lane in-town highway, after which it would not throttle back to the set idle. I discovered that the throttle cable somehow became bound and would not fully relax allowing closing of the throttle plates. Further examination reviled the kick-down cable not adjusted correctly disallowing 100% opening of the throttle plates. It also caused the problem with throttle cable somehow. Kick down cable length has been adjusted.

The throttle cable I used has been in service before I purchased the car in 2008, 30K miles ago, and may have become a bit draggy as it was too long requiring a semi-tight curving or arching between carb/EFI and fire wall. I suspect the the strain on the throttle cable may have been too much for the old worn arched cable and it failed. I have a new shorter cable arriving on the 7th that should resolve the problem.

Now the car is real snappy in first gear & second gear. Much more so than with the old 390 as logged by seat of my pants G Force meter. The first test drive turning out of my side road onto State highway, and up a grade to a guardrail when fueled by a carburetor, the Dart would reach 45 mph consistently. The 300c AWD, 5.7 Hemi driving the same line hits about 55 mph. The Dart with EFI, not at WOT easy hit 50 mph. Further acceleration testing is warranted once the new cable is installed.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:29 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: IRWIN PA
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Thanks for the Report WJAJR,

have fun with it!

I have one of those Fitech Throttle Bodies.. was contemplating firing it with megasquirt...

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:53 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Greg:
Quote:
I have one of those Fitech Throttle Bodies.. was contemplating firing it with megasquirt...


According to Fitech one can customize a fuel map via the handheld interface, and a laptop. Several maps can be saved. Megasquirt isn't needed provided you have a recent version of Fitech if I read that section of the directions correctly. Fiteck offers software updates for earlier renditions. I haven't explored the custom fuel distribution settings, and probably won't.

Anyone recall the IBM 360 mainframe, and those stacks of GD punch cards? My FORTRAN machine language and programing interests ended c 1974. Not a fan of picayune data entry.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:46 am 
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Supercharged
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Hi WJA, Yes I understand all of that.

I swap meet bought my FiTech stuff and It does not have any of the th HandHeld with it.. I basically took a chance on it as it was super cheap, so Since I have experience with the MSII/ MSIII architecture I am going to run with that for my install if I do use my FItech Throttle body.
In fact I might just use the throttle body for air / Map / TPS / IAC only and Just fire off my future project without any Throttle body injection, but using a modified manifold for the port injectors.

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:01 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Greg,

I looked for FITech handheld controller and related wire harness availability. Lots of them out there for sale. See here.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:40 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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The new throttle cable arrived a day early, and got installed a day early; it works much better than the old one. The old cable suffered from a lot of fraying at the gas peddle end, and had swelled enough to inhibit free travel. It must have been like that for a long time as the foot pressure needed to open her up now is much less. Feels kind'ah weird in a nice way. May the old Holley RIP! It won't be missed.

As I mention previously the install of the throttle body was easy, it has been all the peripherals that has been a PIA. But it seems that's the way most of these projects go in my garage. The other thing I have found over the years is the gravitational pull on my ageing carcass when under the car increases each year. What's with that?

Now for a nice long top down ride. It's nice here today, 44 degrees, blue sky, and no bugs.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:23 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:25 pm
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Dart 270 aka Lou:
Quote:
I did "lose prime" once when I ran out of gas on an uphill and could not get it running with just 2-3 gals of fresh fuel in the tank


Yesterday I decided to re-wrap the under hood wiring harness, and tidy up the new plumbing now that the new contraption is working well. It took a good four hours to complete that project. So I decided to start her up and let it idle in the garage for a few minuets warming up, while I cleaned up the work bench, and got a coat on when the smooth idle turned to revving up and dropping off to almost stalling cadence... Oh crap, now what, and I remembered Dart 270's comment above.

I happen to have eight gallons of lawnmower gas hanging around and dumped in four gallons of it, restarted the car and she went right back to a nice idle.

So thanks Lou for the school-en. Top still down, 34* out, I went for a six mile ride just to make sure things were good to go. Now I have to remember where true empty is on the gas gauge. This makes the third sending unit I have installed, and each one has a different idea of how to announce true empty, which in this case, is before the needle gets to the "E" line on the gauge.

I may replace that tank and external pump set-up for a "Sniper" or other fuel injection in tank pump set up come spring.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 7:27 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Last month I ordered a FI tank, sender, pump, and two 45* AN fittings from Tanksinc dot com. I came in less than a week, and I had my son give me a hand dropping the three year old standard tank, and installing the new FI tank. It took a while to adjust the depth and fit of the sending unit and pump, remove the noisy frame mounted pump, and re plumb the soft lines to the new tank. Once all that was connected the FI tank resisted sliding into place. The new fuel filler grommet was on the stiff side disallowing that pipe to slide in. We had to rig up a ratchet strap tethered from mrs wjajr's Grand Cherokee's wheel to get that tank to take the fuel filler pipe, and drop the passenger's side exhaust pipe for some wiggle room. After that it went right into place.

I replace the fuel we had siphoned out of the old tank, and fired her up. I let it run for a wee bit, and went for a test drive. When returning to the garage I noticed a large wet puddle on the floor... WTF? At that point I got out and found fuel pissing out from the top of the tank, and shut it down. I had to drop the tank down enough to access the fittings, tried to snug them up, but they were tight. Had the mrs activate the fuel pump while I observed, and discovered a small split in the AN fitting's tubing.

Tankinc sent me a new fitting, and I also purchased from them a trap door that is installed directly over the the pump and sending unit so no more tank dropping to trouble shoot.

I have been driving the car for several weeks, getting used to how the fuel gauge reads, mostly how much fuel is in the tank when the needle is on E. When on E I can fill the tank with 12 gallons.

Yesterday I made a 170 mile trip, and the tank was showing E when I filled up. The trip included some miles in I 95, and two lane 55 mph speed limits, and several slowpokes to go around. The new FI system is working very satisfactorily. Instant throttle response, no surging, hesitating, or other carburetor peccadilloes I have been dealing with since acquiring this car.

I'm happy with the performance, but still a bit uneasy with where the fuel gauge needle really means it is dry. I'll have to run out of fuel once to find its limits.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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 Post subject: Re: FITech Install
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 6:06 am 
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Sounds good, in the end, Bill. You might be able to adjust the resistance of the pickup with a parallel or series resistor, to get it to read better across the range.

I have the Tanks Inc setup in my 68 Dart and the gauge also gets to E with several gallons left (4-5), but I just live with it.

Glad to hear the FITech works well. 4 X 55 lb/hr injectors sounds good for a medium buildup like yours. Most of the kits probably are too much for a Slant, and the initial fuel maps and/or tuning ranges are probably too narrow/far off.

Happy Slanted Motoring!
Lou

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