:shrug:

Swapped out the generator on my recently acquired 1961 Belvedere. Slant six engine so it has the starter solenoid on the fire wall instead of the starter relay common with the V8 cars. Most of the discussions i've read refer to the single wire alternator conversions on A bodies. I followed the diagram in the FSM for the '60 (generator) to '61 alternator and thought I had it all wired up correctly till I fired it up and darn near pegged the ammeter.

I installed an NOS 50amp alternator with Batt. terminal and two Fields. Field one has gone to the field on a new NOS voltage regulator. Field two has gone to ground at the voltage regulator along with the headlight ground. In addition I ran a separate ground from the battery (-) pig tail just to be sure. BATT(ALT) was spliced to the old ARM wire to feed into the dash and comes back out to the (+) starter solenoid. I pulled ignition voltage from the ballast resistor on the fire wall for the voltage regulator as in the FSM. Tried to follow the same wiring as the FSM so anyone else after me would be able to tell what was done.

I start the car and read 21+ volts from the alternator and 17 and climbing at the battery before I shut it down. Any ideas as to what the heck is going on?

Andrew

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'60 Valiant

Voltage regulator is not throttling alternator, caused by poor ground of VR, or defective VR.

Run a wire from one of the two field terminals on alternator to ground on alternator case, and the other field terminal to bottom screw terminal of VR. Be sure VR has no voltage drop on ground side, in other words there needs to be no voltage difference between negative battery post and chassis of voltage regulator, and alternator case. Your ground loop should correct any problems, be connected to the regulator & alternator, and negative battery post.

For a quick test attach a jumper wire from + battery terminal to top of voltage regulator, and a second jumper from bottom VR terminal with screw to the ungrounded field terminal on alternator. This should control alternator's output to 13.8 to 14.3 volts.

If you have a close to dead battery, charge it up before trying to start engine. This will limit or lessen the flow of electrons from alternator to charge battery. A discharged battery will cause alternator to output full amperage for a long time slowly tapering off until battery is recharged.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

thanks! I will try this tomorrow morning. I figured that the second field wire would be grounded enough by running it to the VR with an addition ground from the (-) of the battery. I will ground it to the ALT and go from there. if that fails I'll let you know what I find by conducting the tests you suggest.

Andrew

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'60 Valiant

That's a '70-up alternator. Fine, but careful -- the main charging system wire and the ammeter in your car were specified and built to handle roughly half that amount of current, when they were new over half a century ago.



What voltage regulator exactly?



Passable, but really should go to ground on the alternator housing itself.



That is much too much alternator capacity for the wiring you've left intact. This is a fire waiting to happen—and remember, your '61 has very little in the way of circuit protection. There is no main fuse or fuselink, and not many circuits have fuses of their own.




From which side of the ballast resistor?



Could be any of a number of things. Alternator and voltage regulator not at same ground plane, faulty voltage regulator, "IGN" terminal of voltage regulator connected to wrong side of ballast resistor, "IGN" terminal of voltage regulator connected to correct side of ballast resistor but there's insufficient voltage at that point because of voltage drop in the car's wiring and/or the ignition switch...

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Wrong, you are "full fielding" the alternator, wired that way. Neither field wire should go to ground, if you are using the later regulator, with the triangle plug.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170

Dan, thanks for the tip on Old Car Parts NW. Ray is great and they're right down the street from me. Two lefts, two rights and I'm pulling into the lot.



I pulled the Chrysler number from my parts manual and Ray crossed it to a VR-101.



From ignition side. opposite side from the coil.

You're not kidding about the old wiring and lack of circuit protection. This is main concern right now with this conversion. DO NOT FRY THE WIRING HARNESS! When I went to get the "new" alternator from Ray this was the lowest amperage one he had. If 50 is really going to be too much shall I start adding fuses as I go or find a lower amperage alternator?

I will eventually be doing the HEI conversion and adding a wee bit of stereo equipment in the future which is one of the reasons i did the swap.

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'60 Valiant

That's serviceable, but you'd do better with a VR-128. Either way, the comments about a triangle-plug regulator do not apply, since that's not what you're using. If your VR-101 is the old electromechanical type (contact points inside, wire-wound resistors on the back) it could easily have stuck points from years of sitting, and that would cause this what you're seeing.

But again, it could be excessive voltage drop. Turn your ignition key on without starting the engine. Put your + voltmeter lead on the upstream side of the ballast resistor where you (are you sure?) connected your wire to the voltage regulator. Put your - voltmeter lead on the battery negative terminal. What voltage do you read? Now move the + lead to the battery positive terminal. What voltage do you read?



Then step number "pronto" needs to be wiring and circuit protection upgrades. See here and here.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I read that first post while researching the HEI conversion. The one about the double fused direct wire. Not too worried about the ammeter but I assume all my dash power will come back through the starter solenoid. Leave everything hooked up as it is, just disconnect and wrap the old wire from the alternator, right?

Been meaning to install an oil pressure gauge as well. I suppose I'll pick up a volt gauge and mount them both under the dash.

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'60 Valiant

Good point Dan.

One can pop off the tin cover of VR and see if points are stick.

If you do the charging conductor bypass disconnect old conductor that runs from alternator's threaded stud to amp gage at engine side of bulkhead connector so that any juice from alternator shunts to battery, and not on secondary path via dash.

I'm not a proponent of parallel conductors fused individually, in other words two #10 Alternator to battery conductors each with fuses. In this case fuses (located on battery end of bypass) are protecting from catastrophic harness melting triple digit amp discharge from battery back feeding through alternator, not so much 50 amp output from alternator. If you use a fuse, I would over size to 60 amps, so alternator can't trip it during full output charge condition caused from heavily discharged battery caused by leaving headlights on with engine off.

When this bypass is in place, and amp gage is still in battery side of charging circuit, it will always show discharge of various degrees depending on electrical load from heater fan, lighting, horn etc. Adding a #14 gage fusable link between battery + terminal at engine side of bulkhead connector would help protect wire harness down line from battery from catastrophic melt down.

Why an old school fusable link? It affords electrical system to tolerate a short term over current before it opens the circuit not unlike a slow blow fuse used in motor protection where starting amp draw can exceed fuse rating for an instant. And much cheaper than 50 amp fuses, and holders.

Sizing of fusable link is four gage sizes less than conductor being protected. Example 10 gage conductor requires a 14 gage link. This is the size used by later A Body electrical systems feeding wire harness. Protecting overcurrent of double conductors, alternator to battery, one could assume two tens equal about an 8 gage, so a #12 gage fusable link could be used if desired in place of a fuse. This will protect alternator and stand up to initial full alternator output to low charged battery.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Read this.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

All is well in the land of the Belvedere charging system. I will be the first one to admit when I have made a mistake and boy did I make a mistake. Per your suggestion that I pull the NOS voltage regulator to see if the contacts were sticking. Upon reassembly I noticed the sticker affixed to the cover and realized that I had the field and ignition wires swapped.

So the alternator is putting out 14.2 and the battery is getting about 13.5 and I am content for now. Next I will upgrade to the HEI ignition and install my stereo, which is why I converted to an alternator system in the first place.

Thank you all for your help and I will be sure to check, double check and even triple check next time.

Andrew

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'60 Valiant

So addressing the ammeter bypass and running the alternator power direct to the battery using the double fuse. Should I run the old ARM wire to the (+) side of the starter solenoid to feed the dash?

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'60 Valiant

I can't see your wiring diagram, but probably so.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks for that link Dan. This is how my charge system is wired
and fused, at your advice. I could no longer remember, however, why I put fuses at both ends. When people would ask, I simply shrug my shoulders and say, "Because I am paranoid". Since the battery is in the trunk on mine the charge wires go to the starter motor big lead (battery connection).

As futher proof of my paranoia, i put a monster 450 amp fuse on the fender between the battery feed from the rear and the starter motor. This is a factory part with Ford numbers for a new Jaguar which has the battery in the rear. There is a plastic cover over the studs that serve as a front batt charge or test point. I paid nothing for the part as it was a gift from a Mopar buddy who works for Jaguar. Not stolen, but replaced in some uograde they do from time to time.

It just occured to me I could run my charging wires to this large fender fuse and shorten it's route a bit, plus keep it further frim exhaust heat.

Dan, you have amazing recall.

Sam

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Oh, pshaw. You said that before, at 14:33 on Wednesday 7 April 2004.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.