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 Post subject: Wire question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:46 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:35 am
Posts: 5
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 225
I have 1964 Dodge Dart 270. In 2020 a friend helped me update some things on my vehicle. We put in a 130 amp alternator because we had added and air conditioning, and two electronic cooling fans. In 2022 I had an electrical issue at the electronic bulkhead connector. I replaced the bulkhead connector and replaced the end terminals. To pass the two 12 gauge wires (that had caused my electrical problem) through the bulk head I drilled holes two between the upper and lower bulkhead terminals and passed each wire though its own hole with surrounding wire loom split tubing. Now the alternator has stopped working. Rather than run large gauge wires from the alternator output to the battery with fuses, my friend is recommending running a large gauge wire from the alternator output to the starter because there is already a large gauge wire from battery to the starter. Will this work? Is this a quick fix or a permanent fix? I'm not a mechanic but try to help. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks 64 Dart


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23933
Location: North America
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Yikes! You are lucky as all hell (like, lottery-ticket lucky) the car has not burned down. Read this and proceed from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:53 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2518
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
I had a 79 ram charger once upon a time. I used to keep a chain and jumper cables with me all the time, as I would take advantage of it's 4wd-ness and pull people out in the winter, jump starts, etc back then. Back when CB radios were the "thing"
Anyways I had stripped out my Cordoba upon buying the ram charger and thought it would be a great idea to transfer the cordobas 100 amp alternator and bracketry to my ram charger.
It worked fine until the first time I went to jump someone. The alternator was asked to put out more than the original alternator's output and it did.... Along with a smoke show from within the dash, and the area around the amp gauge became a melted blob. I got the dead car going, smoke show stopped, and I went on my way.
The next time I shut off the truck and went to restart it, it wouldn't. I don't remember if it would crank with the key or if I had to jump the starter with a screwdriver but I do remember having to put a jumper from the battery right to the coil to get it to fire up. I went to super shops and got a Stewart Warner 100 amp ammeter and wired that in in place of the original and got it to start and run as it had before that meltdown.
I later discovered that there were 79 ram chargers that came from the factory with a 100 a alternator and were wired different, but can't remember now, how they were different. But I fixed the damage along with putting the heavier ammeter in and never had another issue. Hey that was 30+ years ago sorry some of the details are fuzzy


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:13 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2518
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
My latest Dodge wiring project, was my current 85 d150. It's wiring harness came to me as the absolute worst job of hackery and butchery I have ever seeing under one hood. I fixed it with a donor harness from the junkyard. I didn't like the fact that all of the alternators output went thru one thin blade terminal and then all the split offs like a foot before it reaches the battery. So I added a 10 ga extra wire from the hot terminal of the alternator to the battery.
Along the way I also eliminated every fusible link under the hood, by running everything that used to be fusible linked thru a junkyard sourced maxi fuse underhood fuse box that I porates from a 89-92 ranger.
I included running my redundant alternator "hot" thru it's own separate fuse slot all by itself, on the way to the battery besides putting the original alternator to battery wiring they that fuse box as well.
There is a single cable coming from the battery on them that splits into 4 fusible links, each of which got its own maxi fuse within that box. I hate fusible links and always have. Largely because all that I could ever find on amp capacity of a given gauge fusible link was a standard wire color chart, never a "x gauge fusible link is good for a "y" amp load before popping. I always thought it was stupid to reduce the gauge 3 sizes and then go back to the parent circuit gauge size. And the potential PITA of being in the middle of nowhere and having to source any guess if what gauge fusible link wire plus the fact it won't solder, it's much more convenient and easier as well to carry and replace a fuse.
I have a bulletin right from Littelfuse on the subject and history of maxi fuses, somewhere. Among it was the statement that maxi fuses were developed expressly to replace fusible links in a wiring harness. I'll have to see it I can find it.


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:02 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:35 am
Posts: 5
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 225
Slant6Dan thanks for your help and guidance.
I have (had) the referenced link printed out.

I have a questions about the wires running from the alternator to the battery and fuses. In the referenced article you recommended 10 Gauge wires with 50 amp fuses (four in total). My alternator is 130 amp. I was thinking of using 8 Gauge wires rather than 10 gauge. Do you think this is a good idea or overkill. Will I need to up the size of the fuse. In your original example you recommended 50A fuses. Can I get by with 50A fuses or do you think I need to up size these?

I have time to look for the parts because my baby (64 Dart) is resting, while our state has snow and salt to deal with. This winter break also allows me time to get the speedometer/odometer examined.


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:24 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23933
Location: North America
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1964 Dart 270 wrote:
I was thinking of using 8 Gauge wires rather than 10 gauge.


Yes, two of them running from alternator to battery, with a 70A fuse at each end of each wire in a suitable holder.

Quote:
time to get the speedometer/odometer examined


These guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:49 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:35 am
Posts: 5
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 225
I can to find a couple of 60 Amp inline fuse holders at an online auto store. Any though on where to look for reliable 70 Amp inline fuse holder or could I get by with 60 amp inline fuses (4 in total between the battery and alternator)?

I also need to replace the voltage regulator. With the increased size of the alternator will that have any effect on what replacement voltage regulator that I need?

If anyone has thought or opinions I would appreciate them.

Thanks SlantSixDan - that is where I sent my speedometer/odometer. I saw the site on the forum last year and printed it out. This is the first forum I've joined and should learn how to use the site more efficiently. Should have become a member 3-4 years ago. This site would have made my car project much easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:14 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23933
Location: North America
Car Model:
1964 Dart 270 wrote:
I can to find a couple of 60 Amp inline fuse holders at an online auto store. Any though on where to look for reliable 70 Amp inline fuse holder


Well this is a reliable vendor of sturdy electrical components.

Quote:
I also need to replace the voltage regulator.
Errrr…just what kind of alternator did you install, and what kind of voltage regulator are you running now?

Quote:
Should have become a member 3-4 years ago. This site would have made my car project much easier.
See this thread.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:55 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:35 am
Posts: 5
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 225
The alternator is a Tuff Stuff 9509DP (Chrysler 1961-65 130 amp). I thought the alternator had stopped working because the alternator indicator in the dash was no longer moving to the right. I tried to test the alternator after watching some YouTube. The alternator was not charging the battery. My friend finally tested the alternator and said it wasn't working and told me I should take it to place in town that will service/repair alternators.

I found the alternator repair shop and had enjoyable visit with the owner for 20-30 minutes. He tested the alternator and asked how I had it wired up? I was not able to answer him in an intelligent manner. He said that my alternator was working just fine and that I needed a voltage regulator for the alternator to operate properly. I informed him that I had been driving the car 2 years.

I drove home and went to my service manual for the car. I found a picture of the voltage regulator and went to the car and found the voltage regulator which was far to the drivers side of the fire wall. The voltage regulator is at least 30 years old and my be original to the 64 Dart. I contacted SummitRacing and they said that their SMP-VR101 would work.

Are the 70 or 80 amp fuses necessary absolutely required? The site link you gave me has even 80 amp fuses. However, these fuses required space to be secured, there is limited space near the battery due to numerous other fuses mounted there for the added air conditioning and cooling fans, fuel pump power etc. The inline fuse holders available from Summit go up to 60 amps may possibly be easier to install, because there is limited space near the battery due to multiple other fuse blocks mounted there for the added air conditioner, cooling fans, fuel pump etc. to mount more fuse blocks.
However, I want to do what you think would be more acceptable. Who knows when I'm all done with the car one of my children may want it.

Thanks 64 Darting


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:28 pm 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8007
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
Car Model:
sorry to tell you the SMP-VR101 is not compatible with the Tuff Stuff 9509DP alternator. That alternator is the later style which has two field wire connections. The Regulator listed is the early style single field wire connection. The alternator/regulator wiring is different between the two systems.
That alternator requires the VR-125. It is possible to use that alt and the VR-101 together by connecting one of the alt field wires to the alt (as stock) and connect the other field wire to ground.

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65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:00 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:35 am
Posts: 5
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 225
Charrlie_S wrote:
It is possible to use that alt and the VR-101 together by connecting one of the alt field wires to the alt (as stock) and connect the other field wire to ground.


That is what had been done. We are using only one of the fields.

Can I get by with 60 Amp fuses (wires from alternator to battery) or do I need 70 or 80 amp which SlanSixDan sent me a great link (to the fuses and holders) but I have limited room to mount more electronic gear adjacent to battery. I tied to attache a photo yesterday - not sure where it went.

Thanks 1964 Darting


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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:16 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23933
Location: North America
Car Model:
Holy smoke…literally. The more we learn about this cobbled-up way a much-much-too-big alternator was thrown in the car, with a guess/assumption that the original-type voltage regulator would handle it just fine, and complete lack of thought for the wiring, the luckier you get that the car (and whatever it was parked in) hasn't burned to the ground. What in the screaming yellow zonkers drove the decision to put in a 130-amp alternator, anyhow? Just what electrical equipment do you have in the car that you imagine needs this kind of alternator?

Stop buying parts and turning wrenches for awhile; find a mechanic who knows what the hell they're doing, and start doing a whole lot of reading and learning before you find yourself involved with property destruction; injury, and/or death.

Quote:
Can I get by with 60 Amp fuses


60 + 60 = 120, which is less than the nominal rated output of the alternator, let alone its actual output, which will typically be somewhat higher.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject: Re: Wire question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:00 pm 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8007
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
Car Model:
Yeah, what Dan said. I don't know what that early style regulator can handle for field currant, but I would bet it is not what that alternator will draw at full output.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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