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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:53 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Drove the Dart into the heated basement around end of November, shut it off, hooked up a battery minder and never touched it again until yesterday. Primed the old Holley 390, jumped in and cranked her over, and no start. Never did that before.

The hunt began to solve the problem. Checked for spark using one of those light-up bilnkie things that connects in series with a spark plug and its wire. It gave no light

Checked for voltage at coil (+) with key on, it was powered up.
Checked for voltage at coil (-) same as above, 12v. This would be the run circuit...

Removed all wires connected to Red Blaster 2 coil primary and secondary terminals, primary side showed 0.7 ohms, secondary was 5K ohms which Blaster 2 specks should be 0.7, and 4.7K. I don't think being 0.3K over is enough to keep coil from firing a plug.

Next I pulled #1 plug, rolled engine over to bring #1 up to compression stroke, checked rotor and was pointing at #1 terminal. #1 plug had carbon build up with just 3000 miles on a fresh rebuild engine. It is using about a qt of oil every 1000 mi, but no smoke, and oil is light tan not black. I change oil every 3000 miles, and will be doing so once this heap runs again. (Time for some new plugs, I guess, and perhaps an oil separator in line with the PCV plumbing.)

Swapped out the Orange box with a spare I have, still no fire.

I got interrupted by knock on the door, and never got back to my next step which is to check the resistance of the magnetic pick-up in the distributor. Which I don't recall what that resistance reading should be.

The ballast resistor has continuity.

The transmission safety lock-out switch it working as is should. Tested it by turning engine over and moving gear shift into and out of P, R, and N.; cranking would stop in R.

What am I missing?

Hummm...

Now that I'm thinking about I did not test the start circuit form the ignition switch and coil.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 8:29 am 
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The start circuit would be a suspect. Try turning the ignition switch on, then going under the hood and activating the starter with a screwdriver.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:16 am 
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If using electronic ign, the coil negative (-) should have pulsing 12 volts when cranking. If constant 12 volts the ign module is suspect. Other suspect would be the pickup in the distributor. It tells the module to make and break the circuit on the coil (-).

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65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:10 pm 
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Supercharged
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Dan:
Try turning the ignition switch on, then going under the hood and activating the starter with a screwdriver.

I did that using a button operated jumper switch attached to the battery (+) and neutral safety terminal on the starter celluloid I pulled off the yellow neutral wire and clipped on the alligator clamp to the male blade.

The engine turned over, but no spark.

Should the yellow wire remained connected to its terminal while jumping to energize the starter?

Charrlie,

Just to double check my notes; the pickup's resistance should be between 150 ohms and 900 ohms, and the air gap between reluctor and pick-up to be set at 0.006" to 0.008".

I did not observe a pulsing voltage on the (-) coil terminal. But I don't recall checking it with the engine being turned over. I'll check that in a little while. I'm too well dressed for playing with the hood open at the moment.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:25 pm 
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wjajr wrote:
I did that using a button operated jumper switch attached to the battery (+) and neutral safety terminal on the starter celluloid I pulled off the yellow neutral wire and clipped on the alligator clamp to the male blade. The engine turned over, but no spark.


Okeh, well, at least you've eliminated the "start" ignition circuit as the culprit!

Quote:
Should the yellow wire remained connected to its terminal while jumping to energize the starter?
Doesn't make any difference.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:08 pm 
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Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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wjajr wrote:
Dan:

Charrlie,

Just to double check my notes; the pickup's resistance should be between 150 ohms and 900 ohms, and the air gap between reluctor and pick-up to be set at 0.006" to 0.008".

I did not observe a pulsing voltage on the (-) coil terminal. But I don't recall checking it with the engine being turned over. I'll check that in a little while. I'm too well dressed for playing with the hood open at the moment.

I have never been able to determine a bad distributor pick up by checking resistance, unless it was shorted or open. I have a tester for that. However an easy way to test, is to just plug in a different distributor, turn on the key, and spin the distributor by hand. See if you have spark. The test distributor can be any 2 wire dist. doesn't even have to be a Mopar.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:11 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Location: Seattle, WA
Car Model: 75 Dart SE (2),75 Swinger, 74 Dart Sport,91 Ram RV
You folks seem to know more about it than I. But on our 1974,5,6 Darts we've had several failures of the "start-run" relay , inside the left fender, having burnt / corroded contacts. Don't know if your system has that same relay.

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"Louise", a 1976 Dart Custom project, (now sadly reverted to being just an "organ donor" to our other project Darts.)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:09 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Last post was on the 11th, every time I started to get my head into this no start situation, something would come up and out the door we (Mrs wjajr) went. Couldn't seem to get after it interruption free until today.

I had previously narrowed the problem down to three components: coil; magnetic pick up, and spark controller; and the wiring and ignition switch tested good. After some research on the web I found a simple test to eliminate the coil and spark controller as the problem.

Some guy suggested to pull the coil wire from distributor cap place it near a ground, and disconnect the two leg connection joining the wires to the magnetic pick up from the spark controller.

The test:
Turn key to run, ground out the the magnetic pick up wire, and look for the secondary coil wire to produce a spark. If it sparks, the problem is in the distributor, and the spark controller is good.

Looks like a need a new pick up. Got one, it will be here on Wednesday. Hopefully I'll be using up the last few gallons of cheep gas this week during an unusually warm dry stretch of March weather for these parts.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:18 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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I replaced the magnetic pickup in the distributor. didn't help, no start.

The old pickup had a resistance reading of 285 ohms, new one 320 ohms. Spec for pickup I found was 300-600 ohms. So both units are close but on the low side Air gap set to 0.008" with brass feeler.

I repeated the the spark test outlined in a previous post where secondary coil wire is placed close to a grounding point, and disconnected wire harness from spark controller is grounded. It sparked each time lead was momentarily grounded. Spark was on the blue side, and jumped 1/4th inch. So coil is good. I don't see any of the ignition conductors that are damaged, or chewed up, and all connections are clean and tight.

Went back on line for more testing methods for Orange Box found this Dave guy:
http://dave78chieftain.com/Ignition_Syste.html

Went through all that rigamarole found the spare orange box was NFG. Tossed that POS in the bin. Re installed the second box, and still no start.

One thing I did notice was both ends of the ballast resistor showed 12v with key in run position. Coil primary (+) & (-) terminals both showed 12 volts with key in run position. I did swap in my spare glove box ballast resistor and got the same 12v readings.

I'm at an impasse here. Any thoughts before I buy a new spark controller?

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:58 pm 
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wjajr wrote:
Any thoughts before I buy a new spark controller?


I love the smell of a fresh HEI upgrade in the morning. Since you're buying stuff anyhow…!

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:41 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Thanks Dan for the links.

I have been considering the GM HEI upgrade. I'll get to that conversion later this year. For now I have an after market Mopar box on the way that will get the car moving again out of the way el-quick-o to start a project in my basement being blocked by the Dart & LeBaron.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:02 am 
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Turbo EFI

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https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/th ... 783/page-2


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:13 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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Everything around here electrical has soiled the bed so to speak. My internet connection through the air to a nearby hill finely quit Sunday noon after weeks of intermittent connection. It was was a blown out surge protector and lose wire connecting the radio to WiFi probably due to a wind storm up on the antenna we had a month ago according to the technician.

Dart still wont start, but I haven't messed with it since Saturday, tomorrow I will be back on it. I did put 12v to (+) side of coil, and it would turn over, but no start. I'm suspecting the new coil pickup. Plan is to pull distributor and spin it while seeing if I get a mV signal.

The 1953 Ferguson tractor 6V (+) ground suffered from a stuck ignition switch last fall, could not turn the key. This happened just as winter hit real hard last December, so it sat in a snow bank all winter. Lately temps have been above freezing, snow is gone, so I installed a new ignition switch... no start, checked battery it had 6 volts, put it on the charger and would not take a charge. The old 6v Ford starter relay was a rusty mess with bad connections, tried cleaning things up, bit no start. Got a new relay for a early Ford car, and found the 18 month old 6v battery was at zero volts. So now I have a new one year replacement 6 volt battery, hopping to get two years out it. Haven't had a chance to install and wire up relay and the battery, that is also slated for tomorrow before it snows one more time around here.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:02 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Downeast Maine
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I'm wishing to report the Dart is running, but not yet.

What I do know is the coil and magnetic pickup is not the problem. I swapped in a known good coil which did not help. Pulled the distributor out and chucked it up in a vice gave it a twirl, and measured millivolt output, so pickup is producing a signal.

What are chances that the new Standard LX101 blue box is defective? I'm still not real clear as to how to test that box. There is a 0.01 volt drop in the grounding circuit between voltage regulator, spark box, alternator and (-) battery terminal so that's not the problem. I have Magnecore plug wires, like new cap & rotor. The voltage to the primary side of coil (+& -) is; 5v run & 12v start.

What I'm I missing?

On a more successful note the 1953 Fergusion Tractor is starting and running like new now. It had a dead 18 month old 6V battery worn out ignition switch, and a weak starter relay. That baby fired right up after sitting since first week of December.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:15 pm 
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Have you run some jumper wires under the hood to make sure you're not being mocked by a faulty ignition switch or firewall connector?

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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